I was watching a short program earlier about the overuse/misuse of antibiotics and how that could be increasingly dangerous to our health-not just those of us who already have an autoimmune disease, but everyone. I especially thought it's a good subject for us to discuss because the most recent discussion about hydrotherapy involved concerns about infections and whether or not to use antibacterials. This has long been a concern of mine, and maybe some of you have done or could do a little research and shed some light on what's happening in this area.
I put 'microbes' and ''microbiomes' in the discussion search box and nothing popped up. But, I'm sure you guys have discussed this--I just realized I should have searched 'infections'. Anyway, antibiotics are so overused that there is concern this is harming our healthy bacteria-we all know that-but also that this is causing and has the potential to cause more, serious health problems.
We all have wondered what caused us to get this disease. There has to be a trigger-and not just that we inherited it!!!! Why are there so many autoimmune diseases, allergies, etc., etc.? Does anybody think their P or PsA started following a bad illness or use of antibiotics? (I'm not one of the people against antibiotics-just concerned about how they are used.)
It was also mentioned on the program that enough money for research into new and better antibiotics is not there because it's very costly and there's a greater need for development of drugs for many other health issues.
I dvr'd the program so I will look at it later to get the name of the scientist on there.
I rarely take antibiotics. In fact, I have been prescribed abx a few times recently, but the let whatever it was (sinusitis and a UTI, I think) run it’s course or do home remedies instead of actually taking the rx.
Anyway, bottom line is that I have always been pretty judicious in my use of abx. I attribute my PsA to genetics and to stress. My MGF had psoriasis, and my MGM has Crohn’s. In the months prior to my first flare, I had lost my very dear friend to a brief bout with breast ca (she was to be my 2nd attendant), and was prepping for my wedding). So there are my two contributing factors.
I know that some others attribute their first flare to stress, and others to some illness that they had just prior to their first flare, or even still, an injury or surgery. I had not heard of abx use as a culprit.
That said, we ALL need to be very picky about when we use antibiotics. I use them only when the doc is able to culture bacteria on or in my body. The days of antibiotic resistance are here, and there are superbugs that ARE RESISTANT TO EVERY ANTIBIOTIC THAT WE HAVE. That is terrifying to me.
This seems to be a hot media topic, Grandma J. I was listening to a program about the same thing on our national radio just two days ago. It was a microbiology prof. She said basically the same things, and she particularly mentioned the connection between the damage to the microbiome in our gut, use of anti-biotics, and autoimmune diseases such as Crohns, Lupus, etc. She did not mention PsA. (LOL) She made a point of saying that part of the problem appears to be cleanliness and an obsession with sanitation. I thought “Wait a minute, I’ve always eaten unprocessed whole foods. I’ve always had cats and dogs. Refuse any product that says “anti-bacterial” on it. I worked my whole career being exposed to germy kids (rarely was off sick). I’m not anti-antibiotics, but I they were always a very last resort. And no way you could ever call me a clean-freak.” So what’s with that?
What’s with that, of course, is genetics. I did a bad job of choosing my mother! We’ve had several members here say that their PsA started after a bad infection, like strep throat. (Happens with psoriasis too, I’ve heard.) Myself, I think I had my first real flare after a really bad fall which damaged my tail bone.
Interesting, though, isn’t it? Oh, and the prof made a point of saying that public toilet seats are surprisingly free from nasty bacteria, so we can all relax and get comfy. LOL
ABX as a trigger is something I haven't heard of either. There is a difference between the auto-immune and immune system by the way. The terms should not be used interchangebly.Once one understands the difference, one can understand that the disease indeed can't be blamed on something, the body can indeed be broken.Anyone selling or offering something for the immune system is a quack. This is not a problem with the immune system. In fact we have great immune systems, better than average.
I'm much like grumpy BTW alwys have been. Funny how science has family caught up with my grandfather a pretty significant person in the pharmeceutical world. who didn't believe in breaking a fever, diarhea meds (or antinausea) unless things got out of hand. He belived in "house cleaning" and burning up bacteria (heat comes where work is being done)
The rheumies in this area come unglued should someone get abx withoit their clearence an will really blow if they are taken preemtivley.
Grandma, I first developed psoriasis after a strep infection and allergic reaction to the antibiotic I was taking. Most of my skin cleared, but a few spots developed psoriasis. A dermatologist told me that the "insult to the skin" from the allergic rash could indeed have triggered it. Since then I have read speculation that the strep infection itself could trigger psoriasis (PsA was not mentioned) and there has been research recently into whether strep infections possibly trigger obsessive-compulsive disorder in children.
In any case, it's not simple. There seem to be somewhere in the vicinity of 50 genes associated with PsA. I had certainly had strep before- why did it trigger my P that time and not previously? I can't find a family history of P, PsA, RA, etc., on either side of my family. Did I get enough of the involved genes from each side to hit critical mass? Have a spontaneous mutation or two? Just lucky, I guess.
From what I can tell from reading research articles (and, just to be clear, my education is in fine & performing arts, not science) I think they've learned just enough to make clear how many unknowns there are. Also, don't forget that they have found ancient Egyptian mummies with obvious RA. Autoimmune diseases are nothing new. As far as there being a lot of them, we live in a time when these diseases are identifiable and treatable. Our grandparents, not so much. As an example, a friend of mine passed away a few weeks ago. She was 94, and had had lupus since her late teens. It had been correctly diagnosed when she was in her 50s, and she had only had decent rheumatological care the last year of her life. Also, once you or someone close to you has something, you notice it all over, making it LOOK like there's more of it.
I'm another one who tries to avoid antibiotics whenever possible. The resistant infections are scary. Lamb, interesting about your grandfather and fever. I got into a pretty good argument about that with a pediatrician once over one of my kids. I figured a low-grade fever helped fight the virus and helped keep the kid quieter, so he could rest and heal.
Thanks everybody! I think this is so interesting and we need to be open-minded. I'll never ever forget that a cardiologist once told me I was wrong to think psoriasis was more than a skin condition! Of course, his specialty was unrelated to rheumatology, but still, he had put me down for even suggesting that. I always felt, even before I was diagnosed with PsA, that my psoriasis "came from within" my body.
Aside from that, my dad had celiac disease and what we always thought was fungus in his toenails, but nobody else (5 siblings) has autoimmune disease. The stress of quitting smoking I think triggered my P, and during menopause was when my PsA became a constant problem.
However, when I was just a toddler (15 months) my appendix ruptured and I nearly died. I'm sure I was septic (sp). Whatever antibiotics available then were used to save me, and ever since I've had way more health issues than my sibs. I have a great immune system and rarely had infections, colds or whatnot. But I'm plagued with a lot of stomach problems like indigestion and IBS, and lots of aches and pains.
I also only take antibiotics if a culture shows it's necessary, but I have to admit I don't pay much attention to soap labels--its so hard to find soaps that aren't antibacterials. :-)
My first flare was at the same time as a terribly sore throat - most likely a strep infection. I’ve never had a flare response to antibiotics, but I do get them to infection.
On the other hand, I’ve had a few docs who are reluctant to prescribe abx because of my stomach issues. Sometimes the infection resolves by itself, sometimes not.
My lifestyle (ie traveling to Africa every couple of months, high stress, sometimes inconsistent eating patterns), makes it nearly impossible to tell what might be causing my stomach flares - though I know I’m much more likely to get them when my Humira is almost due!
One thing I do know, the hygiene / immune sustem not used to bacteria / paradites. argument doesn’t really work for me. One of the reasons they say pig whip worm seems an effective treatment for Chrons is because people no longer get intestinal worms. Not this little black duck! After some of the places I’ve lived, I’ve had just about every type!
Sybil, I wish I had someone to shop for me--I get almost everything at the grocery store--I guess they might handle some special soaps--I'm kind of not motivated to look lately.