Ok so had appt with the ortho; very quick appt and I am sure not cheap in the least. Discs are slipping in the lumbar and cervical regions. Surgery not an option for these as it doesn't usually have good results. (fine by me) Can either do PT or deep spinal injections. I opted to start with the PT. I will have my first appt Monday. I sure hope this helps the pain some cause I don't relish getting deep spinal injections for the rest of my life.
Oh yeah, this doc said this is a very common disorder of the spine because ---get this---6% of the population has it! I thought common meant a lot higher percentage. And this is the best spine man within 100 miles.
Ah dear, good luck. I had a microdiscectomy for a badly herniated disc, but the only reason they did the surgery is because my leg had gone numb. It did not help with the back pain at all (which they said it wouldn't) but it did relieve most of the numbness.
Anyway, physio has helped me some, mostly with building up core muscles so there is less strain on the back. I hope they can help fix you up :)
The theory of chemical radiculitis had been put forward about 30 years ago and the data is building constantly to confirm it. Its NOT the "slipped disc" that causes the pain but rather a chemical process. As we know about half don't have pain and about half get better in 6 mos. They have in a recent Australian study identified the "chemical" and low and behold it turns out to be be TNF.
There are a ton of studies being sprung from that discovery. I'm not a fan of WIKI but the list of reference at the end of this article is GREAT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_disc_herniation#cite_note-chemical-11
I'm glad you have ruled out surgery. No matter how you plot the numbers, those who report "success" can be no better than "pure Luck" Pump Chris if you will, he's had success with some of the newer implant type TENS stuff.
Depending on where you live, you should be able with the disc thing, get right to a Biologic (TNF inhinitor). PT is a great help.
I've not had the best of luck with deep injections, (except with one doc) but get reviews and ask around. It is almost ALL skill. Usually your best bet is an anesthesiologist. They do spines constantly. And if nothing else almost always use finer needles (because thats how they are trained) and it hurts a lot less not to mention they do a better job of numbing the area,
This isn't a funny story, but I am convinced I had 90% of my back problems eliminated by a physiatirist who used too big of a needle and went too deep IN 4 DISCS He ended up doing a complete spinal. I spent a day and half in the hospital waiting for it to wear off. It was pure heaven. I had forgotten what NO pain was like (as opposed to being stoned out of my mind on pain meds) I was fully conscious and alert. It was COOL (or looking at your picture "in the STONE GROOVE" We appear to be about the same age.) Any way left the hospital feeling pretty good once I was able to walk again. It was great until the spinal headache started. NOW THAT IS pain. all my spinal fluid leaked out throught his holes. My anesthesiologist buddy injected a blood patch so the fluid would start to build up. as it did the next one blew out. and the headache started all over. Now I know I may have a reputation as a drinker (I'm really not) but my tru addiction is COFFEE the blacker (more caffeine) the better. So trust me having a caffeine drip in one arm a morphine drip in the other AND push button morphine when I wanted more was an old flower child's wildest dream. organic brownies would have been the icing (but alas none were offered)
Anyway by the time I lost the fluid three or four times. and got out of the hospital I have never had a repeat of the pain that took me to get injected. Now I don't think it was the leak(s) as much as for the first time in years i was able to do some pretty aggresive PT (watch out for the blue ball)
Depending on how you tolerate the PT, you may want to consider some injections to get you a good start.
I would also suggest starting to carry a gun (loaded) a Glock is perfect. Someone will want to do a mylegram. the glock is a good way to stop that.
Iknow folks have mixed luck with the Biologics. BUT almost everyone has good luck with spinal pain using them. Its the peripheral stuff that seems to be the toughest.
Good luck and welcome to the club!!!!
Emma, sorry you had to go through the surgery and still have the pain. I am very glad that this doctor did not even consider surgery now or in the future.
Lamb where do you get all of your knowledge? I can read something and not remember it anymore. I had always been involved in the medical field and still couldn't tell you now what a lot of things mean. My memory is fogged most of the time. I love the insight you give us. There is always some info from you that is so very helpful. Yes, I loved your story about the injections. I can't imagine what you went through. I am 54 and a product of the flower child/vietnam war era so understand your comparisons.
Hi Alma,
I'm a BIG believer in physical therapy. I credit my PT with the fact that I am still walking--he is that good. The only suggestion I would have is to be sure you are with the right PT. Like anything else, some therapists are better than others. If this one doesn't produce the results you need, don't give up. Try another PT. Always always best to try non-invasive, conservative measures first!
Hope you are feeling well today!
Emma, did you also have numbness in your hands and arms to the elbow? Which discs of yours connected with this? Thank you.
Emma W said:
Ah dear, good luck. I had a microdiscectomy for a badly herniated disc, but the only reason they did the surgery is because my leg had gone numb. It did not help with the back pain at all (which they said it wouldn't) but it did relieve most of the numbness.
Anyway, physio has helped me some, mostly with building up core muscles so there is less strain on the back. I hope they can help fix you up :)
I agree with lamb, NO MYLEGRAM! Or you will wish they would have just shot you instead! That ended all invasives with me! Thay mylegram was worse than the car accident, had me in bed far longer! Wonder I did not go back in that hospital and 'clean it out', but I can dream!
tntlamb said:
The theory of chemical radiculitis had been put forward about 30 years ago and the data is building constantly to confirm it. Its NOT the "slipped disc" that causes the pain but rather a chemical process. As we know about half don't have pain and about half get better in 6 mos. They have in a recent Australian study identified the "chemical" and low and behold it turns out to be be TNF.
There are a ton of studies being sprung from that discovery. I'm not a fan of WIKI but the list of reference at the end of this article is GREAT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_disc_herniation#cite_note-chemi...
I'm glad you have ruled out surgery. No matter how you plot the numbers, those who report "success" can be no better than "pure Luck" Pump Chris if you will, he's had success with some of the newer implant type TENS stuff.
Depending on where you live, you should be able with the disc thing, get right to a Biologic (TNF inhinitor). PT is a great help.
I've not had the best of luck with deep injections, (except with one doc) but get reviews and ask around. It is almost ALL skill. Usually your best bet is an anesthesiologist. They do spines constantly. And if nothing else almost always use finer needles (because thats how they are trained) and it hurts a lot less not to mention they do a better job of numbing the area,
This isn't a funny story, but I am convinced I had 90% of my back problems eliminated by a physiatirist who used too big of a needle and went too deep IN 4 DISCS He ended up doing a complete spinal. I spent a day and half in the hospital waiting for it to wear off. It was pure heaven. I had forgotten what NO pain was like (as opposed to being stoned out of my mind on pain meds) I was fully conscious and alert. It was COOL (or looking at your picture "in the STONE GROOVE" We appear to be about the same age.) Any way left the hospital feeling pretty good once I was able to walk again. It was great until the spinal headache started. NOW THAT IS pain. all my spinal fluid leaked out throught his holes. My anesthesiologist buddy injected a blood patch so the fluid would start to build up. as it did the next one blew out. and the headache started all over. Now I know I may have a reputation as a drinker (I'm really not) but my tru addiction is COFFEE the blacker (more caffeine) the better. So trust me having a caffeine drip in one arm a morphine drip in the other AND push button morphine when I wanted more was an old flower child's wildest dream. organic brownies would have been the icing (but alas none were offered)
Anyway by the time I lost the fluid three or four times. and got out of the hospital I have never had a repeat of the pain that took me to get injected. Now I don't think it was the leak(s) as much as for the first time in years i was able to do some pretty aggresive PT (watch out for the blue ball)
Depending on how you tolerate the PT, you may want to consider some injections to get you a good start.
I would also suggest starting to carry a gun (loaded) a Glock is perfect. Someone will want to do a mylegram. the glock is a good way to stop that.
Iknow folks have mixed luck with the Biologics. BUT almost everyone has good luck with spinal pain using them. Its the peripheral stuff that seems to be the toughest.Good luck and welcome to the club!!!!
My herniated disc was at the L4-L5 level in my lower back, so it was my right leg that was effected. I ended up with a completely numb foot (with foot drop, fun!) and a numb stripe down the side of my leg. After surgery my foot is mostly better and the numb stripe is smaller but I do get sciatic pain as well as still having back pain.
I think numbness in your arm would be a disc from the upper back, but if you have any sort of numbness it should be checked out ASAP!
I'll have to ask my rheumy about the TNF blockers, thanks for the heads up lamb :)
SK said:
Emma, did you also have numbness in your hands and arms to the elbow? Which discs of yours connected with this? Thank you.
Emma W said:Ah dear, good luck. I had a microdiscectomy for a badly herniated disc, but the only reason they did the surgery is because my leg had gone numb. It did not help with the back pain at all (which they said it wouldn't) but it did relieve most of the numbness.
Anyway, physio has helped me some, mostly with building up core muscles so there is less strain on the back. I hope they can help fix you up :)
Hi Emma,
I haven't had much of a chance to talk with you yet. My discs are not nearly as bad as yours, mine are still only at the bulging level, though that may have changes since all of the MRIs were taking place, but I do know about drop foot, my DC can ususally help me with that. Mine, oddly enough started out with the right leg, then went to the left and stayed there, the worst of that is the ever-present Sciatica, but I think the Stenosis is a big one with me, after a while my head spins with all of this. Hard to keep track of it all, you know?
I hope that they can alleviate some of your pain and you are able to live some of your young life in happiness.
SK