Discovering PSA

I apologize in advance for the lengthy post. I have never really engaged in online forums, so this is a bit new to me.

I am a 48 year old male. Last year I decided to take control of my health. I decided to take care of several things that I had put on hold for many years - primarily my weight. I lost 70lbs from May to October of 2013.

I also decided to take care of a breathing problem that had been an issue since I was a kid. I visited an ENT that eventually performed surgery on my sinus passages to clear obstructions and help minimize my sleep apnea.

In addition to addressing the sleep apnea/weight issue, I went to a dermatologist to have a cyst removed from my back that had been there for 15 years. From the time I made the appointment to the time I visited the dermatologist I had developed some (what I thought at the time), strange conditions. I had developed male thrush along with psoriasis in my scalp. I have no history of this and it only appeared in those two locations. My dermatologist had me treat both topically which seemed to be affective. I really didn’t get too concerned at the time.

Shortly after all of this, I developed severe pain in my right index finger. It was swollen and incredibly painful. My right hand was basically useless. I visited two different orthopedic surgeons and it was diagnosed as Tenosynovitis. I eventually had two cortisone shots in my right index finger. This helped alleviate the pain and swelling. Approximately a week later I woke up and I had the exact same pain in my left hand where my thumb meets my hand. You have to understand that this pain is debilitating and excruciating. I called the orthopedic surgeon and made an appointment. She immediately recommended a rheumatologist.

Over the course of the next few weeks I developed additional symptoms. Both of my feet, my left wrist and elbow had all developed severe pain along with the original pain in my right hand. I am an avid bowler and golfer and had given up both at this point.

In January my wife and I met with the rheumatologist. After many rounds of blood work, he informed me that he could not conclusively diagnose me. There was not enough fluid in my joints to draw so he could not rule out if it was gout. His medical opinion, and recommended course of treatment, was to treat me for Psoriatic Arthritis.

He informed me that his real recommendation was to take Enbrel. But, he told me that insurance companies would not approve this medicine until I first tried MTX. He told me that Methotrexate was a low-dose chemotherapy that was effective in some RA patients, but generally not affective for people with PSA. He informed me that I would have to try the MTX until such time as it was proven ineffective. He told me that MTX would have a very negative affect on my liver. In the meantime, he would also prescribe Dexamethasone at 6mg daily to help with the swelling and pain.

After much conversation and research with my wife, I decided to not take the MTX. I took the steroid at 1/3 the dose prescribed (2mg daily). It has been very affective at alleviating the pain. I have historically taken Percocet for years after a motorcycle accident left me with severe back pain. The steroid has allowed me to discontinue using this painkiller. I was amazed!

Two weeks ago I met with the rheumatologist. I wanted to be upfront with him and told him exactly what my wife and I had decided to do about the medications. I told him that we had done a lot of research and did not see the MTX as a viable course of treatment. It seems to me that taking a poison that he had already described as ineffective to meet some insurance requirement did not make sense to us. I asked if my condition would allow me to use steroids “as needed” and avoid the MTX.

He seemed quite upset. He told me that I should discontinue using the steroids. He informed me that, in his opinion, the only reason I did not want to take MTX was because I did not want to quit drinking (I had told him previously that I drink alcohol). He based his opinion on a comment my wife had made. She asked him, “How bad is this medicine you’re prescribing if my husband can’t have a beer. What is going to happen if he has one drink?”

He also told me that he would have no part of a long-term steroid therapy. He also told me that he would be “laughed out of the profession” if he were to entertain my ideas regarding my treatment. I found him to be very condescending and offensive. He told me to come back in a couple months and he’d check on my condition. He is no longer my doctor.

It is my opinion that a doctor should be a patient advocate. So I have an appointment with another rheumatologist next week. Hopefully this one will be more concerned with my health and helping me understand my options.

I realize there are insurance requirements, but it seems to me that there must be options to taking MTX. I am considering telling the new rheumatologist that I have been taking the MTX to meet this requirement so that I can get the approval for the biologics. I hate to be less than honest with my doctor, but my last experience has left me a bit jaded.

I tried to stop taking the steroids but after two days, I could not get out of bed. I was out of town on a business trip and had no choice but to start taking them again. I had to take 20mg of Percocet just to get dressed. As you can imagine, this is all very devastating. Four months ago I was playing golf, bowling and walking several miles daily with my wife and our dogs. Now I can’t get dressed in the morning without chemical assistance.

Another side affect is that I do not sleep much anymore. I guess that’s the steroids too. It’s 5am and I’ve been up since 1. My original rheumatologist prescribed Clonazepam but it’s not very affective and he would not refill the prescription – as I said, he did not seem to appreciate me trying to participate in my own treatment.

I am sure my case is not unique. As this is all very new to me, I would appreciate any feedback. If anybody has any thoughts regarding how to best approach these doctors, I would really appreciate your input.

I have also developed a new area of pain in my back – not my spine but more my ribs. I describe it as feeling like Mike Tyson punched me in the back. It is the same pain as I have in the rest of my body. Could this be a product of PSA?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I look forward to your replies.

- Shawn

Oh, Riptide, you’ve certainly had a bold and blunt introduction to this disease. A lot of us will relate to everything you describe, including the sore ribs. Of course, you need to tell your doc about the Tyson “damage”, but it could well be part of PsA. What is not typical is how quickly you got a diagnosis and a pro-active rheumatologist. You’re a lucky guy, Rip!

As I read your long post (what’s wrong with long?) I had some pretty strong thoughts and reactions –

“Hey, this guy really has a grip on his health. Nice! And a PsA diagnosis right away. Some people take years to get there!”

“Yep, sure do understand debilitating and excruciating.”

“Holy smokes, he saw an orthopod and a rheumatologist in the space of a couple of months! Amazing, it would have taken me well over a year to get there.”

“Yippeeeee, he’s got a rheumatologist who wants to cut through the insurance red tape and get to the biologic as fast as possible. Rip Tide has lucked out, lucky sonofagun, having found a rheumie like that first try!”

“Oh-oh.”

I hear you. I really do. Methotrexate sounds like a very scary drug, and it is in some ways. But in some insurance situations, it’s the only way to get to the next class of drugs, the biologics. And your rheumatologist is right about its effectiveness being questionable in the case of PsA. It does, however, work for some people, and most of us tolerate it well, even with a moderate alcohol consumption.

You are so fortunate to be able to see a second rheumie within a couple of months. (I personally, am positively green with envy at how quickly you have been able to see the right doctors.) I hope this one is as pro-active as your first was, and I hope you are more comfortable with the new person. I would encourage you to accept treatment that is as aggressive as your rheumatologist will give you, as soon as s/he will give it to you. Please do not underestimate the potential for serious and permanent damage from this disease.

I’ve got a few suggestions, for you, Rip:

  1. Get the book I recommend in “Book Reviews”. Having a good knowledge of this disease and treatments will really help you make good treatment choices, and make them quickly. It can take several months to know whether a treatment is working for you, so you want to minimize the time you spend on therapies which have a poor chance of success.

  2. Call your insurance carrier and check out exactly what the requirements are in your policy for you to have coverage for a biologic. Not every policy has DMARD hoops, but some have several. Just as well to know about them before you walk into the rheumatologist’s office.

  3. Hang out here, and read lots of blogs and profiles. We like you already! LOL

Welcome Shawn! I agree with everything Seenie has said. I can totally relate to what you are saying. I was training for a half marathon this time last year when this crazy disease hit me hard. It's wonderful that your wife is attending your appointments with you! My husband has come to everyone with me too and it certainly helps with asking questions and taking notes.

I am currently on my 4th dmard and if this fails will finally be going on to a bio, but crossing my fingers this combo works. It's a long road but eventually I hope to get back to having a more functioning life. The book that Seenie mentions has been a huge help with understanding this disease, course and treatment. I have lent mine to both my doctor and another lady who also has PSA. We are our best advocates! This group has a lot of good info, posts, sharing and support! Glad you found us and hope you find the support and info here great for you too!

Hello Shawn and welcome to this forum, just a shame you have to be here.
Well done on the weight loss and getting a grip on your health, not easy to do but so worthwhile:)
I’m on MTX and have been since 2011, unfortunately here in the UK we have to jump through the DMARD hoops.
MTX is not so bad…yes it can sound scary, but although not always effective as a monotherapy in PsA it can help prolong the life of a bio med. To be honest I personally would be more afraid of long term use of steroids than MTX … but that’s just me.
My first PsA flare involved the thumb joints you mention along with several other finger joints, shoulders, feet, didn’t think Id ever be able to get dressed by myself again. Each flare I’ve had has involved different joints/areas…all in all the rib area pain ( costochronditis) has been a killer, but I’ve recovered enough each time to get back to work and I’m on MTX and a nsaid, along with amitriptyline.
Wishing you luck with this new Rheumatologist :slight_smile:

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. I will look into the book recommended by Seenie. As you noted, I am seeing the new rheumatologist tomorrow and hopefully have a better comfort level with her. I'll keep you posted. I have a couple of pretty direct questions for her;

1) What constitutes long-term steroid treatment (and at what dose - assuming Dexamethasone is the prescription)?

2) How long do we have to try a dmard before we move to the biologics.

3) What are my options if I decide to self-fund the biologics. I am not a wealthy man, but I agree that the potential permanent damage warrants whatever necessary to employ the best possible medication available.

4) Does everyone have the sleep issues or is that just the steriods - before the steriod prescription it was pain keeping me awake. Now I just don't sleep much.

5) Honestly I can't image not using the Dex at this point. I own a small business and if I can't work, my family doesn't eat :( If Dex isn't the answer, what is?

I'll post the answers and maybe they can help others.

I know I sound completely impatient (and I know I am), but this has really come out of the blue and not completely sunk in. I'm still hoping for some kind of miracle that makes all of this go away.

Again, thanks so much for your comments and support. My best to all suffering and their families supporting.

- Shawn

Amitriptyline helps me sleep, I was prescribed it 15 or so years ago as a pain moderator because of migraines… lucky me, cos a lot of us on here have been prescribed it to help cope with depression, moderate pain and aid sleep…maybe worth a mention tomorrow?

Oh yikes, I missed the fact that you are going to the new rheumie tomorrow! You won’t get the book read before then, but it will still be very worth getting.

A few quick points –

Be aware that steroids only calm the inflammation. The disease carries on.

Self fund a biologic? gasp Give your pharmacy a quick call for a price quote.

If at all possible, give your insurance a call re coverage for a biologic, before you see the rheumie.

And good luck tomorrow!

Hi--I understand where you are right now, in your pain and in your thinking. Hearing about methotrexate and what it can do to your body is hard to handle, especially when you have already gone through so many doctors and made so many positive, healthy changes in your life. It feels like you are taking a giant step back to even hear about psoriatic arthritis, the medication regime choices, and waking up in constant pain is overwhelming. Even with such a great support system in your wife, you are still the one with the uncontrollable disease in you. You have also given up some of the social things that you loved, and just want to get better. I get it...there are few on this very supportive online group that doesn't get it. I am a researcher at heart (with three Master's degrees including one in counseling-ha)..Anyways, I looked up the medication and freaked out by the side effects, and decided the same thing you did. And then, the psoriatic arthritis flare went out of control, and I was in such pain that I couldn't get the prescription filled fast enough. It was the right thing to do, but it still hard to wrap my mind around.

I am very happy to hear that you are getting to see a different rheumatologist that you may have a chance to build a better rapport with, however very few doctors start you out right away on enbrel because of the high cost of the medication.

Please continue to write and respond to this group---everyone on this online group are people who live in the daily reality of this type of arthritis, and understand more than you know.

enjoy your day--terri

Everything your first dr. told you was correct. Long term steroid use is very dangerous. It can lead to cataracts, bone necrosis, osteoporosis, all sorts of horrible things.

Your dr. is following standard protocol with MTX leading on to other meds if it doesn't work. I don't think you have a handle on how serious this disease is if you are already throwing away good advice, medication, and a good dr.

Hi, Rip Tide
Just wondering how the new rheumie was. I hope you felt more comfortable with this one than the last. What’s the plan for treating your PsA?

Okay...so I saw the new doc Tuesday. As expected this was as much an introduction as anything else. Coincidentally, both the nurse and the new doctor had worked at my previous doctors practice. They both said that my negative reaction to the previous doctor was not uncommon. I guess you have to kiss a few frogs, eh? We will now go through the process of collecting medical records from both my previous rheumy and my orthopedic docs which could take several weeks.

The new doctor confirmed my previous doctors thoughts regarding PsA treatment. The HUGE difference was that she is comfortable forgoing the use of MTX during the insurance waiting period and that she had no issues with me asking questions regarding my treatment. Her thought was as long as I'm filling the prescriptions, she doesn't need to know anything more than that. It was nice to speak with a doctor who took the time to both understand my situation/concerns and help me understand my options.

Regarding the comment below left by Marietta, I would offer this thought. A doctor, first and foremost, should be an advocate for their patients. Providing healthcare is much more than an exercise in providing a dissertation of knowledge of a given medical condition. Anybody that would suggest a doctor is "good" by simply prescribing a "standard protocol" should consider doing more research before blindly accepting directions from someone because they have MD after their name. I think it is great that we have so much information and support options like this website available. It gives us the ability to educate ourselves and actively participate in our own treatment.

As with every doctor I've spoken with the utilization of MTX on PsA patients has very limited success. The new doctor was also interested in the fact that the steroids have alleviated much of my back pain and suggested that there might be an association with Spondylosis. I offer this because, according to the new doc, MTX is even less affective on this type of arthritis.

We asked about the definition of "long-term" steroid use. The doc said that while some folks might be on steroids for a year, the goal is to mitigate the use as quickly as possible. But based on my dosage (2mg/daily) of Dex, I should be able to stay on for another few months until we can get approval for biologics from the insurance company. In her opinion, the goal should be to wean off the steroids as soon as we have an acceptable substitute.

She also asked me to confer with my dermatologist to get a more definitive diagnosis on the psoriasis. I consider myself very fortunate that, in my case, the psoriasis is limited and well controlled (at least so far).

As far as the issues related to sleeping, she prescribed a very light dose (.5mg) of Xanax to help sleep. I'll let you know if this helps as I hope my posting(s) might help others that might that finds themselves in my situation.

At the end of the day, I was very pleased to meet someone who's last comment was not - "Whatever - come back in a couple months and we'll see how you're doing" while turning his back on me and walking down the hall. I am looking forward to working with someone that genuinely wants to work with me to find the best solution possible for me.

As always - thanks so much for your thoughts and input. I hope it's a good day for all.

- Shawn

That’s good news Shawn,
Glad you feel comfortable with your new doc, as you say its important to feel you can work with them :slight_smile:

Very good news indeed!
I’m glad you kissed frog number one goodbye, and now have a princess! You got very much the same information and message from her that you did from number one (and from us, as a matter of fact), except that you are comfortable. That is HUGE. Congratulations.
Interesting what she said about filling the MTX script. (winkwink*) If only you’d made that play when the first doc gave it to you, you’d be weeks ahead in the game. Every day’s a school day!
You’ve made progress.