X rays

I was wondering what your thoughts of getting some x rays to see if there is any bone loss or fusing

going on?

My Dr has never offered this and just pushes the medicine on me but concerned about future problems. I just turned 48 and really want to do what I can to be proactive.

Very active in weight training, physical work, golfing and coaching football. not being able to do this would just kill me.I do realize you all feel the same, sorry just had a complaining moment!

what are your thoughts?

David skytech

David, you’re not complaining, you are thinking ahead and working on strategy for outsmarting this disease. Good for you.
It’s odd, some docs don’t seem keen to have x-rays. Others do them periodically to check for disease progression. That saidd, I think I read somewhere that x-rays are pretty crude diagnostic tools for this disease, but I could be wrong.
In my case, I’ve had x-rays at regular intervals since my diagnosis: my GP seems very comfortable with that. I must say that the imaging has been very helpful, in my case anyway, for monitoring what has been happening. (And there was plenty happening, unfortunately.)
At my PsA clinic (a research facility) they x-rayed all of me except my skull on my first visit. I don’t know when they will do another set, but what’s the point of a first set if you aren’t going to do a comparison later?
For myself, I would want baseline x-rays, at least of my spine and the parts that seem most affected by PsA. But I’m not a rheumatologist. Nor do I play one on the internet. :slight_smile:
It will be interesting to see what others say about the x-ray question.

I have had some x-rays during my younger years prior to diagnosis of my hips(2001 showing amorphous calcification around the greater trochanteric bursa) and then hands and feet after diagnosis (showing mild and moderate osteo). My doctor doesn't feel x-rays are needed at this point however I do.

Like Seenie said, it offers a base line to compare down the road. I will be requesting x-rays of my hips again as it is now 2014 and I have been living with sacroiliac pain daily for the past 6months or longer.

Like you I was active in weight training (3-4 days weekly), a runner and had a very physical job(on a ship). Unfortunately with my disease progression I have not been able to do much for the past 7 months. I'm 41, soon to be 42 and I can totally understand how you are feeling in regards to remaining active!

My doctor only occasionally orders x-rays. She got baseline of my knees last year, as one of them has been swollen and variable painful for years now. But when I complained about my wrists, she just took note. We know that it’s caused by PsA and are adjusting meds to reflect that I’m not under good control. Otherwise, orthopedists do imaging to determine treatment decisions, and I’m pretty comfortable with that.

Thanks for the feedback, I did have an ultrasound done prior to being diagnosed because of the pain all over my body

and doctors had no idea why, haha

It showed zero wrong so maybe I shouldn't look into it and any trouble will not show up?

Im sorry, the biggest are of concern is the top of my spine, left jaw bone and the top of my buttock,

All are very sore and slightly swollen.

My toes are curled up but ive learned to live with them

skytech said:

Thanks for the feedback, I did have an ultrasound done prior to being diagnosed because of the pain all over my body

and doctors had no idea why, haha

It showed zero wrong so maybe I shouldn't look into it and any trouble will not show up?

I really have to find a new rheumy, someone to actually check my body out and show concern instead of sending me out with refills

Stoney said:

My doctor only occasionally orders x-rays. She got baseline of my knees last year, as one of them has been swollen and variable painful for years now. But when I complained about my wrists, she just took note. We know that it's caused by PsA and are adjusting meds to reflect that I'm not under good control. Otherwise, orthopedists do imaging to determine treatment decisions, and I'm pretty comfortable with that.

But david, thats what rheumies do. In fact its the only thing they can do. They simply are pharmacologists who deal strictly with inflamation and diagnoses of some autoimmune disorders and manage medication for them. Rheumatology is a sub-specialty of Internal medicine.

When it comes to structural issues etc, they have no more training than a psychiatrist. Their job is to refer you to the appropriate specialist. In the world of managed care "baseline x-rays" make no sense. Its sort of like the "Old Irish Prayer" when applied to PsA, you have only two things to worry about, either the disease progresses or doesn't. If it doesn't you have nothing to worry about. If it does you have two things to worry about either a surgeon can fix it or he can't. If he can you have nothing to worry about. If can't then nothing can be done and you have nothing to worry about.

Fewer than 10% of us ever progress to surgical need. If have a doc who is aggressive in treating your PsA meaning she uses and manages the Big 3: NSAID, DMARD and Biologics. You make sure you live as healthy a life style as able and approriate to your needs and move everthing as much as you can every day, There is nothing more that can be done.

This is an incurable, progressive disease. Once thought to be one of the milder arthritis's, its not. Figures suggested that severe joint deformity and destruction usually affecting the small joints of the hands and feet (called arthritis mutilans) occurred in only 5% of patients. However, more recent reports now suggest that arthritis mutilans occurs in 16% of patients. The course of psoriatic arthritis is comparable to rheumatoid arthritis, with about half of patients showing a progressive disease, eventually developing erosions and loss of function in affected joints.Despite clinical improvement with current DMARD treatment, joint damage has been shown radiologically in up to 47% of people with psoriatic arthritis at a median interval of two years. Over time there is clinically active arthritis such that, by the time patients have been followed for more than ten years, 55% have five or more deformed joints.Up to 10% may require some form of surgery for destructive deformity.

Aggressive treatment of early-stage progressive psoriatic arthritis can help to improve prognosis. That goes back to the things I mentioned Meds, Life style, and activity. Proactive means that you do these things without fail. The only thing that matters is what you are doing today. You can develop the most beautiful game plan there is but with PsA, its like loading the Box against the triple option.

Stoney was dead on the only time these "studies" are helpful is when they are needed to make decisions. Or as my doc says, "Geez, you have PsA what else do you need to know??? My job is to stop it." X-rays are no help, by the time it shows up there, you are screwed.

I get what you are saying, Lamb: if you are already on aggressive therapy, there’s no point in taking pictures. And then only for the purposee of orthopedic intervention. But what about someone who is on “gentle” therapy, or simply limping around on NSAIDs, with a rheumatologist who thinks the problem isn’t really so bad?

I would think that if there is any question about whether to treat, or what kind of treatment to put in place, that x-rays might influence the plan.

If you have a doc who needs and X-ray to be convinced how to treat this disease with all we know about early and aggresive treatment, you need a different doctor. If you are suffering from this disease and have been around this forum more than a week and still wonder about whether early aggresive treatment is appropriate (including both DMARD and BIOLOGIC meds) you need a swift kick in the ass. In the next five years I will spend $600,000.00 or more mine, the insurance company/medicare's moneyon new joints. Not because of what has happened the last 5 or 10 years but the 25 before that when I figured "I can get by"

Seenie said:

I get what you are saying, Lamb: if you are already on aggressive therapy, there's no point in taking pictures. And then only for the purposee of orthopedic intervention. But what about someone who is on "gentle" therapy, or simply limping around on NSAIDs, with a rheumatologist who thinks the problem isn't really so bad?

I would think that if there is any question about whether to treat, or what kind of treatment to put in place, that x-rays might influence the plan.

I got ya, question answered! the last 5 to 8 years I have been more concerned with supporting my family and running a business and just dealt with the pain as it came on.

Hope too much damage isn't done but it is what it is, moving forward I will try to take care of myself the best I can.

Thank you all

David

David, I did the same. Started Dmards last year, on my fourth now and finding the right med alone has been a journey. I had no idea what PSA was all about and what kind of damage it could do. Flared only a few times a year and back to life...unfortunately it took me years to get a diagnosis, because of being so young and very active most of my involvement was bursitis of the hips, rotator cuff tendonitis and so on.

My Doctor said I was too young to have arthritis...eventually another doctor (relieving doctor) saw me during a flare and said you have RA? That is when I was given a referral to my now rheumy. The x-ray I mentioned of my hip(2001) was during the time I was told I had bursitis.

Lamb is very right in regards to treating the disease and my rheumy is pretty much on the same page, however I would like an x-ray to see what kind of damage may be in that area (now in pain daily) as there were already signs back in my younger years and that possibly would get me on to a biologic faster. I like the idea of a base line also because of the fact that each med can take 3-6 months to show and if damage can occur fairly fast....it would allow for a more aggressive treatment.

skytech said:

I got ya, question answered! the last 5 to 8 years I have been more concerned with supporting my family and running a business and just dealt with the pain as it came on.

Hope too much damage isn't done but it is what it is, moving forward I will try to take care of myself the best I can.

Thank you all

David