Tummy troubles?

Ok, hands up who has tummy troubles?

There seems to be considerable overlap between all the spondylarthropies (of which PsA is one), IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease) and IBS (irritable Bowel Syndrome)

For me, a switch from Enbrel (which was doing a good job on the arthritis but shows no help for IBD) to Humira has enormously improved my quality of life by almost completely resolving some pretty severe tummy symptoms (not to mention the fatigue!). Being disciplined about my diet has certainly helped too!

Anyone have a similar experience? How many of us are there?

For years, off and on and pretty consistently for the last couple of years , I have passed excessive mucous (tmi-sorry). I went to the doctors a couple of times about it and ended up having colonoscopies done. They always came back showing nothing. Since I've been taking sulfasalzine, the problem has disappeared and my bowels are the best functioning part of my body lol, (has done nothing for the PsA mind). So now, I'm thinking that I've had something inflammatory going on for a long time, since my late teens, but just at a mild level.

I was diagnosed with IBS eons ago, in my teens. As an adult, I haven't had much in the way of issues, although recently I have had a return to the constipation. But here's the thing, should IBS be linked in any way? It's not inflammatory in nature.

Since I started leflunomide and sulfa combo, along with diet my stomach issues have improved.

Yep, count me in with IBS!!!! Started in about 2000, around the same time as my psoriasis but many, many years before the arthritis. Had all the investigative tests and nothing conclusive found so was given the IBS label. I don't get any pain these days but can be gurgly and always loose. DMARDS didn't help and I wonder, in hindsight, whether the leflunomide actually made it a bit worse. Humira did nothing for anything and now about to start Simponi so wait to see if that helps at all. Didn't even know there was a connection until I joined this group!

I was diagnosed with IBS at 19 and have never put the two together until reading this post. I find that it is particularly bad when I have a flare up. I also try to control my diet by eating as much wheat free food as possible and not having milk. My IBS had been doing lots better until just before christmas when I had a major PSA flare up. I too had all the investigations and it took about a year of testing until they finally said 'it must be IBS'. I take colpermin which is peppermint oil tablets quite a lot and they ease it a little. It was another 4 years after that I was diagnosed with arthritis but I got the symptoms before IBS and have had psoriasis from being 18. I wonder if the two are connected?

In retrospect, my nail and skin issues (which I always thought were vanity issues and too minor to fuss about, HA) and my irritable bowel started at about the same time. Each time I got scoped, I’d tell the gastrodoc. Each time, he would say my bowels look just fine.
Also, looking back on it, the worst periods of IBS happened when I was achiest and most tired. I always thought it was some kind of a virus. And I never connected my minor nail issues with my bowel problems, silly me! I wasn’t diagnosed with PsA until many years of enduring these symptoms.
The IBS started to settle nicely when I began Enbrel. I still get a bit crampy and loose a day or so before Enbrel day.

Ali and TaraLynn, Sulfasalazine is also used for IBD (though as it's not highly effective on the severe version they now use a derivative - 5-ASA), and would definitely be something to consider for those starting treatment who get tummy troubles as well as arthritis and systemic effects - good point.

Charlotte, I drink peppermint tea and it has a really noticeable and positive effect! I'd recommend it to anyone who has these sorts of issues.

Stoney, that's what they always used to think, and most websites still define the difference between IBS and IBD as the presence or absence of inflammation. There is some new research around that indicates that there is a subset of IBS that has an inflammatory component, even though its not visible on scope (that's right Seenie - your scope might be normal, but you are not imagining the association). The inflammation is extremely difficult to detect using current standard tests. See the following link as an example of some of the more recent thoughts on this;

http://www.med.unc.edu/ibs/files/educational-gi-handouts/Inflammato...

Personally I think that I get both motility symptoms (usually associated with IBS), and inflammatory symptoms (according to recent research, could be IBS or IBD), and I'm starting to learn the difference - the motility symptoms can be greatly managed with food, but the inflammatory symptoms - well eating the "wrong" thing for my body exacerbates it, but I certainly couldn't get it to go away just through diet (thanks Humira).

This is a very interesting post. I have had constipation all my life but I assumed it had nothing to do with my PSA which has also been all my life. What are the inflammatory symptoms of IBS/IBD,Jen?

Michael...also battle with constipation. I had a colonoscopy and the specialist said that everything looked good and that it was probably IBS so to work with my diet. IBS can be constipation or also the other way. I have to agree being on meds has helped but cutting gluten and my current combo has really helped. I had some of my husbands cheese nachos the other day...first time in over a month and instantly had bloating and stomach issues. I have had a little goat cheese and no issue but since we went vegan for the month of January, I noticed a difference right away. Needless to say I am back on the gluten free/vegan diet...I have allowed myself some goat cheese occasionally with no issues.

michael in vermont said:

This is a very interesting post. I have had constipation all my life but I assumed it had nothing to do with my PSA which has also been all my life. What are the inflammatory symptoms of IBS/IBD,Jen?

One more thing....my doctor (old doctor) was the one who suggested the arthritis could be having an effect on my bowels. She sent me for the colonoscopy.

TaraLynn said:

Michael...also battle with constipation. I had a colonoscopy and the specialist said that everything looked good and that it was probably IBS so to work with my diet. IBS can be constipation or also the other way. I have to agree being on meds has helped but cutting gluten and my current combo has really helped. I had some of my husbands cheese nachos the other day...first time in over a month and instantly had bloating and stomach issues. I have had a little goat cheese and no issue but since we went vegan for the month of January, I noticed a difference right away. Needless to say I am back on the gluten free/vegan diet...I have allowed myself some goat cheese occasionally with no issues.

michael in vermont said:

This is a very interesting post. I have had constipation all my life but I assumed it had nothing to do with my PSA which has also been all my life. What are the inflammatory symptoms of IBS/IBD,Jen?

Very interesting. I had my first over 50 colonoscopy but they did not find anything except 3 adno-something polyps so I am on the 3 year plan. PSA is all over my chart but is there anything I need to tell them to look for?

Constipation as well? Interesting because I was 37 when the IBS started/was diagnosed but knowing what I now know would say that my whole life up to that point I'd been constipated. A link I did find early on in my PsA journey was with Vitamin D and IBS as well as PsA .... I've got some notes and info on this I'll look it up and post later.

This is interesting…I’ve always had alot of bowel pain, especially an hour or 2 before going to the toilet, sort of cramping like period cramps. Since my skin has flared over the last few weeks or so I don’t know where I am with them…1 day very loose and never feel like I’ve finished, then constipated, loads of flatulence and pain. Wonder if the 2 are connected? And OMG my piles! Been settled since cutting right down on wheat, but back with a vengeance!



michael in vermont said:

This is a very interesting post. I have had constipation all my life but I assumed it had nothing to do with my PSA which has also been all my life. What are the inflammatory symptoms of IBS/IBD,Jen?


Hi Michael, well that's a bit complicated. The guys over on the crohns forum have at least as hard a time getting diagnosed as we do!

Whilst I feel I am starting to tell my motility and inflammation issues apart personally, all of the symptoms from one could be due to the other, with the exception of a few. The golden rule is still the ones you will read on the websites; substantial fresh blood (more than just from piles), tarry black blood, or coffee ground looking material (all different levels of digestion), and significant (10%) unexplained weight loss over a relatively short period of time (ie less than a year).

Despite having both of these, my official diagnosis is still IBS, because the scope only showed "normal ulceration" of my small intestine - so you really need to take anything I am saying now with a large pinch of salt, and consider it personal experience. Anyone who is a bit sensitivite, the following is likely to be TOO MUCH INFORMATION so stop reading now.

Motility issues for me often cause gas, bloating, gurgling, and diarrhea (from here on let's just call it D). Sometimes The D alternates with constipation. Don't wake up in the middle of the night needing to go. No specific associated fatigue or temperatures.

Inflammation issues for me more often mean obvious in digested food (whether in D or apparently normal stool), mucousy stools, and odd little thin ones (I think the guys in the know call them pencil stools). D is often present, but doesn't need to be, and just as common is the feeling that I'm a bit constipated and even when I've been there's still a bit left to go. There is also an actual feeling of swelling in the lower abdomen - for the ladies out there it's similar to having period swelling, and is often accompanied by a mild throbbing back ache just like the one some of us get at that time of the month. A feeling of fullness after eating very little. Nausea. And on a bad day, dramatic lower left or right quadrant pain. Breathtaking stuff. Certainly caused me to become prednisone taking! And finally, extreme fatigue and night sweats, with the occasional urgent D waking me up in the middle of the night. (It seemed unlikely that the fatigue and night sweats was from PsA because it was largely under control thanks to Enbrel).

The blood and weight loss were the big alarm bells for me, as you might expect. But that's likely to one day end in a diagnosis of crohns, if Humira stops working for me. I think it's possible that its common for people with PsA to have milder gut inflammation, where you wouldn't expect drastic things like blood, but it still affects quality of life. Hence encouraging people to consider their medication mix if they have the option.

PS. Most people with IBD have real trouble controlling their weight. Whilst rapid weight loss is one of their criteria, it would appear one of tha main reasons they use this is to identify high-risk patients for investigation, rather than because it happens to most people with IBD. Spend some time on the forums and you'll see most battle with weight. As well as steroids (lots more than for us usually), the sheer inconsistency of the eating causes issues. One week I'm trying to eat as much as possible (persuading myself to eat more when im nauseous) of the highest calorie stuff my body will digest (goats cheese, crackers, white rice, fish, more cheese), and the next my guts absorbing everything and I haven't eaten a proper meal in months and maybe I'll try a bit of that cheesecake and doesn't that chocolate look nice.... You can imagine the result. So don't assume just because someone is not skinny they can't have IBD!

I've always had IBS, been checked many times for the other things like Crohn's, Ulcerative Colitis, IBD, etc. All that stuff is negative. For whatever reasons I had dr's who insisted IBS was really rare, and the issues were almost always a result of other undiagnosed intestinal issues. Dr's finally admitted I simply had IBS.

I found that taking an SSRI took away 90% of my symptoms. So for the past 15 years I've been relatively asymptomatic, which is pretty amazing.


We seem to have a lot of the same “tummy” issues!
I get really bad pains before I have to go that I can only describe as contraction like before I need to go. Also lots of bloating and discomfort, seems like it has gotten worse over the years.
I find that wheat and grains in general do make it worse!


Louise Hoy said:

This is interesting…I’ve always had alot of bowel pain, especially an hour or 2 before going to the toilet, sort of cramping like period cramps. Since my skin has flared over the last few weeks or so I don’t know where I am with them…1 day very loose and never feel like I’ve finished, then constipated, loads of flatulence and pain. Wonder if the 2 are connected? And OMG my piles! Been settled since cutting right down on wheat, but back with a vengeance!

Thanks for this valuable information Jen. It is not TMI for me! I don't know if I see myself anywhere here, I certainly am not skinny nor have I had weight loss but I certainly have pain and bloating at times. The rest I am a little confused on but can discuss it with my GP at some appointment. Since I have to have colonoscopies every 3 years (though more like 4 years!) I assume if something were wrong it would show up in time. I had a very difficult birth with my son with lacerations just about everywhere so it kinds of makes the picture confusing for me. Thanks!

He said there was nothing and that I should work with diet and see if that helps as it was probably IBS and that would require dietary changes to see if it helped with the issues. I have gone vegan and gluten free, however I had some of my husbands Nachos the other day and with in an hour my stomach was bloated, painful and felt sick...so for me it seems to be dairy and maybe gluten. I've had the odd bit of goat cheese with no issue so maybe it was the greasy cheese they put on the nachos?

michael in vermont said:

Very interesting. I had my first over 50 colonoscopy but they did not find anything except 3 adno-something polyps so I am on the 3 year plan. PSA is all over my chart but is there anything I need to tell them to look for?

Jules would that be due to a Vitamin D deficiency? I'm interested in seeing the info! Thanks :-)

Jules said:

Constipation as well? Interesting because I was 37 when the IBS started/was diagnosed but knowing what I now know would say that my whole life up to that point I'd been constipated. A link I did find early on in my PsA journey was with Vitamin D and IBS as well as PsA .... I've got some notes and info on this I'll look it up and post later.