Please help us all manage expectations!

Hello all!

This may be too broad a topic, but I think a lot of us newbies would really benefit from all of the answers. I was recently diagnosed and am in the dreaded GAP, but I’m not entirely sure what my expectations should be. So, here goes…

(I do realize our rheumies can answer these questions, but learning experiences of others can be very helpful when you are freaking out about everything!)

What should our expectations be of this disease?

What kind of improvement would each of you consider a success from a drug? 50%? 70%? 80%? At what point would you consider the drug a failure? Less than 40%? (I’m just guessing here)

For me, PsA has meant both pain and fatigue (sometimes very severe fatigue). Should the expectation be that a drug should improve both? Or should I be satisfied with only improvement in pain?

Once you have deemed a drug successful, do you still have flares from time to time? Should we expect to continue to have flares even though a drug is working? What does a flare look like for you? Are they less severe and/or less often? How do you tell the difference between a flare and a failure of treatment?

Finally, what kind of expectations should we have from “alternative” solutions? I’ve read the articles online regarding various other things to try to alleviate symptoms - certain diets, supplements, acupuncture, etc. Have you tried anything other than medication and what were your results?

I know this is a lot of questions - I appreciate any and all responses!!

Thanks!
Rebecca

1 Like

What a great idea for a thread. Such good questions and ones that we have all struggled with. I’ll take a bash from my own experiences but also from some of the collective wisdom of the group.

Answer to all these questions is, of course, a big old “it depends”. Our individual experiences are varied based on many factors: the progression of your disease; how long you’ve been un-diagnosed and/or untreated; how well you do/don’t tolerate certain medications; how realistic it is for you to live stress-free and follow every last piece of medical advice, including eating right and resting enough; whether you have comorbidities which can really complicate things. So that’s the disclaimer answer…here’s my own POV.

Expectations: you have a chronic, progressive, inflammatory disease. Without treatment things will most likely get worse. You can expect your diagnosis to remain the same and for your symptoms to change. You can also expect your baseline of “normal” to shift like desert sands.

Improvements: if you’re on a disease modifying anti-rheumatic medication you can expect some abatement of your symptoms. How much and for how long varies by person and by drug treatment. Biologic medications tend to offer the most significant benefits, but older DMARDS (I’m looking at you, MTX, sulfa, leflunomide, etc.) can work really well for people, too.

How much improvement you will see depends on all the factors mentioned in the disclaimer and also at what point in time you set your baseline or benchmark. It is probably true that you’ll never get back 100% to your pre-PSA self. But the right medicines can get you very close. I was back to 90% on Enbrel. Until I wasn’t. Which bring us to flares and drug efficacy…but I’m skipping ahead.

Pain and fatigue: Inflammation is the cause of both. Joint damage can also be a big factor in pain, as it, too, is caused by inflammation (mostly). So getting rid of the inflammation is huge and then arresting the progress of the disease is essential. Many of us take anti-inflammatory drugs along with DMARDs to help lessen inflammation that the DMARD or biologic isn’t fully treating. I used to think anti-inflammatory meds were to be taken as needed (you know, you take a couple ibuprofen after you overdid it weeding the flower beds) but in the case of our disease consistent anti-inflammatory intervention can be helpful for some (I’m one). And for some, bursts of prednisone are prescribed (I’m one). But this is not a common practice across practitioners and there’s little consistency across countries.

Fatigue is usually evidence that your disease is going a little bonkers (untreated). Again, prednisone often gives an immediate energy boost to help with fatigue but that’s just putting lipstick on the psoriatic arthritis pig, so to speak. When your inflammation is slowed by a good treatment protocol then the swelling goes down, and the fatigue abates. But when you’re face-planting into your work computer keyboard at 3pm, knowing that you’re shattered because of your unchecked inflammation is of little consequence. There’s no quick fix for the fatigue. Aim to curb the inflammation and the fatigue will diminish, too.

I am not satisfied unless all visible inflamation is gone and the fatigue has gone away, too. I’m not so concerned with the pain, not because it isn’t there, but because I find it an unreliable indicator of my disease.

Flares: Yes. They happen. Over time you will learn to know what can bring them on–overdoing it at work, taking on too much at home, getting inadequate rest, a change in the weather, or–and this is probably the most common cause and should probably be avoided–visiting the in-laws. Sometimes they just happen. Even on a successful drug protocol there will inevitably be things that cause your internal workings to go a bit wonky. The drugs we take are working hard on our behalf but they also make our bodies work hard, too, to flush out all the “stuff” (it’s a technical term) that is the byproduct of fighting the inflammation. So if you don’t feel well, aren’t drinking enough water, or aren’t eating well to support your body, you might inadvertently be heading yourself towards the pointy end of a flare.

A flare will typically have an acute onset. Failure of a drug treatment can be acute but it is more likely to be a very slow decline. So slow that you wonder repeatedly if you might not, actually, be making it up. Once you’ve gone several weeks wondering if you might be feeling a little worse, and a little worse, and then, a little worse still, you talk to your doctor and you frankly assess how well you are able to do all the things your physician assesses (dress, tie shoes, walk 1 mile, exercise, function at work, etc.). When you see those scores declining over time then it is probably time to look at the medicine. And by time I do mean over months, not days or even weeks.

And I say months because I’m someone for whom winter is a bear. A major PITA (pain in the …). I have the hardest time getting through the winter unscathed even on a terrific drug regimen. So I wouldn’t ever make a determination that my drugs aren’t working in January or February because those are just plain horrible months for me. But come April when I usually feel great, if I’m still shuffling around not able to be active or get out of bed easily, then that would be the time when I would start asking the tough questions about my treatment.

Alternative solutions: this is a tricky one. I would say if you have done everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to take care of the conventional approach to treating your systemic disease, only then would I suggest looking at dietary restrictions or supplements or seaweed wraps, or solo hikes in the tundra, or whatever else you’ve been told will help you. But any and all of these supplemental supportive therapies MUST MUST MUST be entered into in consultation with your physician.

Our good friend and moderator @tntlamb has offered some great posts lately about why certain foods are inflammatory and others can be helpful to us and a low-carb approach has worked well for him. I tried to be gluten free for months and hated my life! Some people use turmeric, others find it does nothing. Be very aware that some seemingly benign supplements can be anything but and can have profound interactions with the DMARD and biologic medications that we take. So consult your doctor.

I had received acupuncture for a couple of things way before my diagnosis and had tremendous success. But when I went to see my practitioner after being diagnosed and relatively untreated, there was no magical outcome after many months of appointments. But I’m a big fan of moist heat for treating my disease so I’m fortunate to now have a hot tub in my back yard which has eased my suffering in the winter months. I’d consider that an alternative therapy and way easier than solo trekking in the Alps!

Hope this is a helpful start. and I look forward to seeing others chime in.

3 Likes

Expectations. That’s a really tough one. I was diagnosed almost 10 years ago. I used to want to have no symptoms. I’ve come to realize, over time, that this is highly unlikely for me. That said, there are people out there who have remission for years. It’s just not my experience. So I go for good enough. If I’m waking up with minimal stiffness and not having big flare ups, I’m probably doing okay on my current meds. My hands look pretty normal right now, in terms of swelling, except for one finger. And even that one isn’t too bad. No big joints are killing me every day. I continue to struggle with fatigue. But now that I plan for it, it’s more manageable. I only work a few days a week, part time, to help me manage.

My flares are overall less severe and more spread out. Failure of treatment is slow for me. I’ve only had one med that didn’t work at all for me.

1 Like

I’m sure this post will run and run!

Great questions! I’m still thinking about them but one thing that occurs to me is that some expectations evolve over time. And one expectation I now have is that I’ll handle the disease one way or another and that my life will be okay. I don’t think I expected that at first, I probably didn’t want to go there!

And some of my expectations have been formed by reading so many posts here. Based on others’ experiences I had high expectations of biologics and I wasn’t disappointed.

Thanks so much for raising these questions. You really have summarized a lot of mine!
I was diagnoised 5 mths ago. I have very little psorasis (mainly nails) and my mri came out mild. So, sometimes I’m in denial - do I really have this?
I am however in constant pain and cannot function as I used to. I started out on NSAID and now I am on MTX and Arava. I actually don’t know if there is an approvement. Pain is always there and often more intense in one area than another depending what I do.
I’m carrying on my life. Planning my days better, resting more, exercising more etc but I don’t know if this is how it will always be.
Can it be better on a biologic? Or should I accept that this is how it is going to be from now on?

I love when I hear the positive attitudes…Sybil, you always seem like a glass is half full type of person. You probably see me as the glass is half empty type! :wink:
I had no confidence in the meds before I went on Enbrel, and Enbrel is pretty much the only med I would agree to take for my PsA. I was afraid of it and every other med–I did have a couple prednisone tapers and they made me feel so good I begged for more. My rheumy wouldn’t agree to that, though.
When I finally started Enbrel, my negative side had me convinced it wasn’t going to work anyway and the disappointment would be too much to bear.
Well, it turned out Enbrel has been more than I could have ever wished for. Especially at first–the first several weeks were the absolute best, which is sort of rare because usually it takes longer for a biologic to start working.
I don’t feel 100%, but I know Enbrel is still working at about 80%, which I’m okay with. I’m not sure what’s normal for a healthy 63-year old. I would imagine even a totally healthy person at my age would have occasional aches and pains and a slower life style.
If you haven’t sustained too much joint damage from your PsA, I think you could feel pretty darn good if your biologic is working!
I waited too long to do anything about my PsA and my feet are pretty bad. I’ve even been noticing lately that it’s not just the erosion in my feet joints, but it’s also inflammation, especially as it gets closer to Saturdays, when I inject.
My HOPE is that Enbrel continues to give me 80% relief…I will be very hesitant to give up on it–if it went down to 40%, where my PsA and psoriasis would be continually flaring (my scalp was really bad until I went on Enbrel and I have none on my scalp anymore) and I would say my fatigue and all-over stiffness were the worst symptoms of PsA for me. I’m rarely tired now–I can easily function on 6 or 7 hours sleep a day and have only a couple times in 3 years had crushing fatigue (and that followed a night of only or 4 hours’ sleep!).
Along with Enbrel I take 2,000 mg Ultimate Omega fish oil, which helps my circulatory and immune system; 2,000 mg calcium because of my poor bone density. I stopped taking any other natural/herbal remedies because I couldn’t see any improvement of the pain in my feet.
Most days I’m unhappy with having so much pain in my feet. I’m not sure surgery would be the answer because sometimes it can do more harm than good, and being a negative Nancy I look at the downside rather than any chance of it being a positive thing!
This is a good thread and it’s interesting to hear everyone’s perspective on what they expect from the treatment of their PsA.

Diagnosed a little over a year ago, having failed to recover appropriately following a bunion correction operation. Was diagnosed exceptionally fast and fought this diagnosis very hard. Trying mxt for the second time, this time on injections and not getting on at all well due to side effects.

I do very well on steroids though.

Expectations? I was horrified that in just over a year I now have the beginnings of joint erosions and had become Rheumatoid Factor positive as well. So I now expect it to progress. And keep on progressing until I find a medication that halts the progressions and allows me to live my life as well. I don’t have any expectations given others’ experiences that if I do find a medication I can tolerate it will last for forever either. I think and expect to be playing with medications versus capability versus side effects for the rest of my life. I’m 55 now.

I manage pain and loss of fuction with steroids and NSAIDS presently. And I function exceptionally well when those are in balance and working together. But they don’t halt the progression of joint erosions. So the search for me to tolerate a medication that does that is still on.

Most of the rest of it for me is coming to terms with this as a chronic progessive disease. I don’t imagine that whatever medication that actually works for me will make everything wonderful again. And I loathe having to come to terms with that. Fatigue can be major but I’m learning how to manage that better. Being completely ‘effed off’ at times is major too. Especially presently.

I’m not at all looking forward to my future as I think it will always be a huge struggle of persistently trying to get the balance right and I foresee quite alot of time ‘wasted’ dealing with side effects versus capacity. Since Sunday I’ve been felled by side effects - ergo what a waste of those days.

Normally though when I have capacity, life is far more positive and I tend to grab the good days and relish them. I do tend to live in the present more, not great for bad days but pretty spectacular for good days. I find living that way better than worrying about the tomorrows if that makes sense. So I don’t dwell too much on expectations as I find that too depressing.

I do find the lack of medical clarity as to medications and the huge length of time to wait to see if they’re working frustrating. But c’est la vie I guess. For example I was told yesterday to miss out my next dose of mxt and then take the next one. Why? When I’m so felled with just the second dose??? Why would I want to even risk feeling this awful again? Makes no sense to me.

I did try a homeopathetic treatment only available in Ireland for several months. It worked around half the time. When it worked I felt seriously fabulous, full of energy, capacity and in good spirits. But it didn’t stop the joint progressions though. I can try more of that along with these conventional meds as it doesn’t interfere but it means getting on a flight to Ireland once a month and that costs.

This disease certainly dances to its own tune as regards flares. I haven’t yet discovered if I have a trigger such as weather or foods, it appears not. I did have horrendous skin psoriasis as a teenager which started due to a strep throat. That disappeared when I really badly fractured my shoulder - called ‘reverse Koebner’s syndrome’. I have next to no skin psoraisis since. No nail involvement either, never had nail involvement. Stress flared that though. My guess is that stress flares my PsA too. Just my own thoughts.

My thoughts on expectations Rebecca is to be realistic and just grab those good days with all your heart and both hands.

Thanks so much for all of the responses so far - hopefully other veterans of this disease will chime in as well!

A little bit more about me - I was diagnosed in February and initially responded very well to Humira, but that was short-lived. After 2 months of the pain getting progressively worse (worse than before Humira), my rheumy is calling it a failure and we are moving on to Enbrel. I’m supposed to do my first shot tomorrow. I am very optimistic, but I’m also scared of the disappointment I will have if it doesn’t do the trick!

janeatiu - Thanks so much for your post…a lot of really good info there. I will probably have to read it a couple times to digest it all, but that’s a good thing! I really like your advice about alternative solutions. Because my symptoms tend to vary day to day, I was wondering how to balance alternative solutions with the drugs. For example, if I cut out gluten and feel better, will I still be able to tell if my medications are working? You gave me the answer I needed. Get the meds figured out first and then worry about alternative solutions if the meds aren’t enough.

Stoney - I want to have no symptoms at all, so your post was good for me to read. Maybe that is an unrealistic expectation and I’m setting myself up for disappointment? At this point, my brain would be happy with significant improvement in my symptoms, but I also know that deep down my heart is crushed by this diagnosis and I haven’t yet come to terms with the long-term impact.

Grandma_ J - Your experience with Enbrel was good for me to read. I’m nervous about starting it. Actually, I’m nervous about it failing me like Humira did. Your fear of the disappointment really resonated with me. I would be happy with 80% improvement, so I’m hoping I have a similar experience to yours. I will ask my doc about fish oil and calcium…those are good suggestions.

Poo_therapy - I was a little scared to read that your diagnosis came after bunion surgery. I was actually supposed to have bunion correction surgery a couple months ago, but had to put it off because my PsA diagnosis testing uncovered a liver enzyme issue. I am now supposed to have the surgery in December and I’ve been a little concerned about the recovery now that I have PsA. Mine is mostly in my upper body (hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders), but I do get twingy in my knees and ankles some days. Any words of wisdom regarding the surgery? I think you are in a similar head space to me - it’s all very frustrating and the uncertainty is a little overwhelming. But great advice to grab the good days when the happen!

Again, thanks again for the responses - this is really great information!!!

1 Like

Wow, Poo_therapy, I think you speak so well for all of us. One thing I’m hopeful for you is when you get a biologic, you will have good results…I forgot to mention, when I started Enbrel it was 2 50mg injections per week x 3 months. That might be a good reason why it worked so well for me.
I’ve avoided prednisone since I started Enbrel, only because my rheumy had told me it was bad stuff if taken too often. I think that was just his way of scaring me into taking the leap to biologics. I highly recommend either Enbrel or Humira for starters. I’m pretty sure those are the two oldest biologics and they both seem to have good reputations.
It is very hard to accept having a disease that’s destroying your joints, causing pain and fatigue and forcing you to take injectable meds. I still have a hard time, after 3 years of injecting Enbrel, accepting that I need an injection to be well. As having strong, healthy parents and extended family, it’s disappointing to be the one with a disease that is quite serious and can definitely make life miserable, whether untreated or when treatment doesn’t work. On top of that, most people don’t know anything about PsA and it’s hard for them to understand the impact it has on us unless we become totally deformed and disabled.
I don’t bother to tell people I have PsA because they think it’s simply arthritis and can’t seem to grasp when I’ve tried to explain the difference.

Interesting I read this just as pain management calls to confirm my Friday appointment.

I’m going to borrow some stuff from Janeatiu as my outline and add my take.

It does depend. My experience is based upon this: I have probably had this disease since 2006. I was undiagnosed and untreated until 2012. That led to a LOT of progression: both shoulders, right hip, both knees, both feet, left Achilles, cervical spine, degenerative disk disease and some hand involvement. It is not realistic for me to live a stress free life: I’m a criminal defense lawyer who works as a public defender. I don’t follow every piece of medical advice to the letter, but I do watch my sugar intake. I try mightily to rest when my body says DO IT. I have comorbidities: Graves Disease to name one, some involvement with my inner ear (which has led to bouts of vertigo).

I’ve had to become accustomed to a new normal. I do pretty well most days, but there are still times when I grieve for what I had and don’t now. On Sunday, I injected Humira. On Monday, I felt like crap–stiff and achy. It rained this morning. Felt great this morning. Now that I’ve been banging on the computer all day (I’m an appellate lawyer on a deadline), the shoulders, neck and hands are complaining–and that’s with taking multiple breaks from banging around. My husband has learned that there’s this one spot on my right ribs that he cannot touch. EVER, but to put it into broad terms, we still enjoy a physical relationship.

I started treatment with oral Methotrexate; took exactly one dose and three days later, called my rheumy and said NEXT! I injected MTX for right at a year and never got over the GI issues. It did improve the disease–the crushing fatigue was gone. I walked better. But I never got past the GI troubles, which snuck up a LOT.

I had left shoulder replacement surgery in 2013 (a whole other story ending with it was the wrong type because the rotator cuff issues it was supposed to fix weren’t). I had done some reading here and other places and learned that some folks injected Humira every 10 days. I asked my rheumy if we could take me off MTX and give the Humira q10 days a shot. It gave me my life (albeit a different one) back!

I am thankful that I’ve been injecting Humira for four years. I am beginning to have a bit of injection site reaction, but Benadryl cream takes care of the itchies. My rheumy and I have talked about total failure, however, and have made tentative plans.

My joints don’t like cold or winter. They really don’t like cold, damp weather. The Graves disease doesn’t like me to get overheated (I live in warm, very humid Kentucky). I have a heating pad in my office. I have a heating pad at home. I have a slew of pillows, both in my office and at home. When we travel (and we do, some), our CR-V looks like the Clampetts are going to Maui.

Flares? Yep, I have them–most start with a sort of flu-y feeling and then migrate to fatigue, then soreness and pain everywhere. Last year, I had four between May and September. Turns out, my gall bladder was trying to poison me. I had it removed in October. I haven’t had a flare since and that’s with having bronchitis at the end of last year.

As for pain, my rheumy won’t let me take Ibuprofen. Tylenol does about as much good as red M&M’s (actually, less, with the red M&M’s I’m getting chocolate). I take baby aspirin. Voltaren helps my hip. He won’t let me use Voltaren every day. I end up using it once a month (on a really bad day), maybe twice in a bad month.

I have a progression: heat, hot shower, rest and prop (if needed), baby aspirin, muscle relaxer, then if I’ve done that for multiple days or my husband says I know you’re not sleeping, your face has been drawn for two days, I know you’re in pain, I take the lowest dose of pain meds possible.

You get to know your physical therapist really, really well. I’ve been with mine for six or seven years–I’ve been in so much that I’m working on my second folder. Michael, the physical terrorist, has told several PTAs that my husband and I are family.

I take a good multi-vitamin, fish oil, Vitamin D and turmeric every day.

All of our stories are interesting aren’t they? And so sad too. It’s a truly dreadful disease. I knew that before I was diagnosed (being a medical lawyer previously has its downsides) and hence fighting the diagnosis so hard. My poor first rheumy got complained about because he was too vague and too shilly shally about everything and sadly I just went for him. We actually ended up as friends but he doesn’t have an interest in PsA and doesn’t have what I consider to be the requisite intellectual curiosity about it either. Bath and Dr Ellie does and finally I feel like I’ve met my match. That’s so good for me anyhow. She can blast research at me and I can blast it back at her and we can have a proper coherent conversation about most things. That’s gold dust to me. Helps me understand. Her indulgence of my questions via email mostly is just simply gorgeous. Her team otherwise is astonishingly efficient and coherent. I’m staggered by it and so grateful the NHS lets me access her, even though I live over 200 hundred miles away from Bath.

Aged just 18 months old I got severe asthma. Its severity lasted pretty much till I was around 7 or 8. So I know all about not being able, not being able to breathe too and spending vast tracts of time in bed or on the sofa, exhausted and ill. I know lots about missing out and I know lots of literally falling flat on my face when trying to keep up. I know lots about nebulisers, inhalers, and lots about PT. My mother, thank the Lord, treated me as if I had cystic fibrosis. She reckoned all those PT exercises would help me. They did. I spent those years missing lots of school, being alone, I was the youngest by 5 years too. Anyway by about 8 or 9 I was doing lots better so I had catching up to do!

By aged 13 I got skin psoriasis as I said above. I was covered. I literally looked like a scabby, flaky beetroot. You know how that went, as I described it above. Great fun it was too entering puberty and my teenage years looking like that, as you can imagine. It was seriously challenging.

So I am truly utterly horrified I’ve now got PsA. It’s probably the reason why I’m so hissy and spitty about it. Enough already frankly. So I am demanding of the drug regime and so I am seriously intolerant of its side effects too. I can’t tolerate any GI issues. I have a stupid but very serious phobia about throwing up, feeling nauseous and am fairly intolerant of just being queasy. I can’t even clean up dog or cat vomit. Alan has to do it for me. I can tolerate the runs but pooing water like I’ve just done for 4 days on the second dose of mxt is a step too far in my book. I can clean up any dog poo or wee or cat poo or wee without a probem. The name ‘poo therapy’ comes from volunteering on a rare breeds farm (also a tourist attraction) literally mucking out pigs mostly and cows and sheep and goats and whatever else. I haven’t been able to do that for a year now as it needs me there at 8am and I take longer presently to be able to get going. Alan can’t deal with poo or wee at all so we suit eachother. We don’t live together either, he lives up the road. Much better that way too! But I don’t have much patience or tolerance left as it’s all been used up in these last 55 years.

I just want to be able to work hard. I love my job even though the pay is crap. I want to be out in the countryside, walking and watching wildlife and walking our dog and just being glad to be alive and be able. I’m happiest crouched down watching the deer rut, or watching mad March hares or whatever else, you get the picture. I want to be able to work my garden, laughing with the dog and two cats too. The garden is huge and fairly unruly presently but it’s mine. Just mine! I want to be able to drink too much wine on occasion or on lots of occasions just laughing with friends and having a good time. That is what I want my present and my future to be.

So it’s no to drugs that have ‘vomiting’ first on the side effects list. It’s also no to drugs that say no alcohol at all. I’m Irish for God’s sake so get real, although living in the UK since 1989. It’s no to a truly circumspect life as my youth was that and I’m not about to do it again as I slide into old age. So that’s the traditional DMARDS dealt with isn’t it? Mxt hates me and I now truly hate it. Sulphasine (or whatever it’s called) says ‘vomit’ at the top of its side effects list so that’s not going to be tried. Lefluomide (spelling?) says no alcohol at all so that’s not a go-er. And NICE says I’m not yet bad enough for biologics although there might be a way through since the rest are contraindicated either psychologically or physically. I do mind you have 3 joints eroding, two toes in my right bunion operated on foot and my left hip. My right hand (thank God I’m left handed) tends to blow up regularly too. And I get severe rib pain, presently in my right side which at least stopped me thinking at 4am I was about to have a heart attack as it started out on the left. It’s not at my sternum at all, more on the side where my arm hangs down.

When I’m not on steroids my right foot is huge and painful to walk on so I hobble. My right fingers are sausages which makes me unable to wear both my grandmothers’ engagement rings which are my most treasured possessions. Both extraordinarily strong feisty women too. And I get completely exhausted too.

I am on the best fish oil quality I can buy and I also take tumeric capsules. The rare times I’ve run out I notice. I take Naproxen twice a day, every day and I also notice when I don’t. And I fritter with Tramadol mostly when I’m reducing steroids. And I take Berrocca, mainly a B vitamin thing. Took that daily long before this PsA started.

I don’t know that I want to take boilogics orTFNI’s or whatever. I’m utterly horrifed at their compromise. I never get sick, have colds or chest infections or whatever now. My lungs are always going to be my weakest thing too. I’m still on inhalers to this day. Not helped by smoking for too long. Yes it was stupid but I had catching up to do. Stupidly. I don’t smoke now but I vape.

But you know I must live my life on my terms too. There doesn’t seem much point doing otherwise.

Rebecca you asked about my bunion operation. My guess is that I’m a reactor. My skin psoraisis was ignited by a strep throat, My PsA was utterly ignited by my bunion surgery. My foot was broken in two places and bits of bone shaved off and a small plate inserted in October 2015. From the moment I was permitted to just walk on my foot, I suffered severe tendon issues, which migrated into a hugely swollen foot which without steroids has never become normal again. I suffered a significant fractured shoulder in 1999 but opted not to have surgery then as I was told it could cause ‘arthritis’. Back then I was only concerned about osteoarthritis. So instead of having a six to eight week recovery period I had a 4 month one. My shoulder recovered exceptionally well after a year of gruelling PT and it’s still just fine. I broke my right ankle in 2008. it wasn’t even that painful but I had to not weight bear for 6 weeks. It’s now not happy. But was fine until my right bunion surgery. I day dream about getting the metal taken out of my foot thinking not surprisingly that that might stop things. Given my horrendous experience this far on medications, it may well be something I’ll explore with greater vigour. I feel somewhat lucky I can pinpoint things so well, many of the rest of us can’t.

So that is what it is for me. And I truly utterly hate that I have this disease. Some of the stories I read on here can make me cry too. As I said previously - enough already. But catch me on a good day and it’s a whole different story. The curse and mostly the great privilege of being an emotional Irish woman.

But I have my life to live and I now must live it in accordance with what makes me happy, being able to connect and to have proper deep belly laughs in the company of just good company! It’s certainly not to spent living the life I had to live this past few days, that’s for sure.

God I do go one sometimes don’t I? Sorry

1 Like

:slight_smile:

Great idea for a thread. And I would add another category to the discussion which I would imagine is useful for people new to the condition and the board:

“Unexpected PsA-related symptoms to expect!”

I think the fatigue possibly fits into that category. But from personal experience I would also suggest toothache, painful ligaments, dry/painful eyes, problems with nails. I think someone here mentioned chest pain too the other day. Plus certain results in blood tests too (anemia, for example, and then other things caused by the anemia, and on it goes!).

But I certainly agree that knowing what to expect from this bl**dy thing is SO important. Sadly, my rheumy when I was first referred wouldn’t answer questions and I floundered for a long while. This place has been remarkably useful for finding out what is part of my “new normal.”

2 Likes

Most people find a drug that will let them function or even go into full remission. I was diagnosed 12 years ago and for 10 I was doing Okey (never no pain but managable) after starting dmards I never had an inflamed joint (until I stopped 2? Months ago since my old reumy didn’t know what to do and I went for a second opinion, I have atleast 8 now)

Expect to be okey but talk to your doctor about how your really doing… I’ve been slowly going downhill for about 2 years… and then suddenly I couldn’t take it anymore… Take a step back and look at how you’re​ really doing (ask people because they keep telling me how they could see I was getting worse… but they never said anything and I didn’t notice…)

1 Like

The easiest Way to manage expectations is to not have ANY - Seriously. The simple fact is NO ONES expectations are met whether or not they have PsA. Going through life is a one time experience. You don’t know what is going to happen until AFTER it happens. I was with my father in law when he passed. He made a couple of observations that night. First was “I feel so young, Why does everyone treat me like I’m so old” I told him it was because 89 IS old. He told me he thought he expected to be old when he was 75, but it came and passed and he still wasn’t old. I asked him why he didn’t think the quadruple bypass he had didn’t give him a clue? His answer was pretty profound. he told me it was simply the next step not the end.

Each thing that happens in our life journey is simply the next step. The only thing we can expect is what Win told me is eventually when we go to sleep, it will be forever. He reminded me of that minutes before he went to sleep and it was forever.

I personally hate the phrase “new normal” While it is helpful in accepting this disease and dealing with it, the fact is everyone everywhere WITHOUT EXCEPTION experiences an an entire life of new normal’s. Sometimes our “plans” match, most time they do not.

So to answer the question: PsA is an disorder in which your body is confused about how to take care of itself. Inflammation is the bodies ONLY way of taking care of itself. Because confusion in lack of control, there can be no expectations other than your body will always be confused. Inflammation can happen anywhere anytime or it doesn’t. Statistically anyway it doesn’t. The instant you have expectations, you add to the confusion. I figured my problems were my shoulders. getting them fixed should help. It did - kind of. But it didn’t make my body less confused. Darned if the inflammation next went to every blood vessel and every part of my lymph system. We can help each other deal with what happens, but that is about it for the most part.

3 Likes

I like this:

While I don’t actually like having a confused body, this matches with my intuitive experience, my feelings about the disease. I sometimes wish I had a position, a once and for all take on PsA and how it affects me and what to expect. Well I don’t. My family are pretty supportive but some say I can give out mixed messages about how I am. Of course I do! I often don’t have a clue about how things will be from one day to another and there’s no point keeping track of every little thing unless a rheumy appointment is coming up.

It’d be nice to be consistent but that’s not going to happen. I have many really good phases. There’s been a recent awesome patch during which I’ve felt easy in my body & full of life and therefore started anticipating good ‘normal’ days ahead, simply because it had gone on so long. So I started banging on about how my rheumy would doubtless tell me I was in remission blah blah blah. Daft perhaps, but very enjoyable at the time. Then, obviously, along came a week or so of extensive pain & stiffness & rolling around moaning ‘please make it stop!!’ All it takes is my husband to hold my hand and make me a cup of tea & I can face life again. Still hurts though. That’s an expectation or perhaps a recommendation: find someone, anyone, whether that’s a person in your life or a whole forum or both, who is on your side and then it’s at least a bit easier.

We can get hung up on semantics. I might use the word ‘expect’ to say that I expect my PsA to progress, mainly because it has already even though it is well controlled. I expect to keep searching for things that will help because I know there are drugs that can help most of us and because attitude and great doctors and good people can help. I expect to keep enjoying the best times 'cos that’s what I do and then to panic a bit when I flare or things go wrong, because that’s the precursor to coping, for me anyway.

I see your post as a quest for information. I think that’s one of the most constructive things you can do. Whether you talk in terms of expectations or simply how to live with the disease, knowledge and shared experience help to build how each of us deals with the reality of PsA.

2 Likes

I think the biggest part of this is learning to accept you have it. I’ve a lot of learning still to do on that one. I find it hard to reliquish my quest to have it all controlled so I don’t have to think about it anymore. I find it hard to accept that pretty serious meds need to be taken. And I find it sobering to hear how much some people suffer too as there but for the grace of whatever god might I go too.

I think Mr Lamb is right. Maybe we should be learning not to have such expectations. Certainly all my angst would probably disappear if I didn’t have such expectations. I do see that but old habits die hard, for me at any rate. But at least I’m now realising that much better, which in turn sometimes shortens my angst ridden times. And sometimes the quest for information which like Sybil I agree is very constructive brings us answers to questions we hadn’t even thought of asking yet.

Thank you @tntlamb and @Sybil. Your words have really helped me. I agree people everywhere everyday are adjusting to ‘new normals’ and PsA is when your body gets confused about how to take care of itself. And Sybil, your idea of a ‘position’ so resonates. Had a setback this week as I found out that it looks like Humira might be approved but my chest xray shows thickening of the pluera in the lungs… suspected latent TB. Waiting now for ct scan and TB nurse appointments. Feeling sad and worried. I might continue without adequate meds for possibly all winter. Something about what you both have said reminds me of resilience and finding a way. It also reminds me of my shared connection with others without PsA…not minimising just balancing my bad luck with reminders of my good luck…looks like I might get access to biologics but need to wait a little longer. Thank you.
So my contribution to this topic is that I balance expectations between expressing my sadness and fear and trying to stay focused on hope. It’s hard at times not to get confused like the PsA in trying to work out how to take care of myself…but i think i am getting it…keep hoping for good outcomes, get angry sad with the setbacks and then get back up and hope for another path to emerge. Anyway this is what i am practicing…i reserve the right to be despondent next week! Bit if a rant…oops

2 Likes

MacMac, if you can’t have a bit of a rant and a pity party here, where can you have one? You’re usually one of the members who says positive and focused through difficulties, and goodness knows you’ve had your fare share of them.

In the end, it will all come right (you know and believe that) but right now, the going is tough. We’re right there with you.

Stay strong.

1 Like

Hang in there MacMac. Cyber hugs. x

1 Like