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Living with Psoriatic Arthritis (PsA)

Ozone therapy (MaH--minor autohemotherapy)

Has anyone tried ozone therapy, also called MaH? My naturopath says he believes the joint damage in my fingers can be reversed with this treatment. I am going to try it. Some blood is drawn, mixed with ozone, then re-injected. Yikes! I am hopeful but it sounds too good to be true.

I realize this study was about Hepatitis C, but it still has useful info. It’s from the National Institutes for Health (NIH): “Medical ozone is more bactericidal, fungicidal, and virucidal than any other natural substance. Some studies proved that ozone infused into donated blood samples can kill viruses 100% of the time. Ozone, because of its special biologic properties, has theoretical and practical attributes to make it a potent hepatitis C virus (HCV) inactivator, which suggests an important role in the therapy for hepatitis C.”

Your Naturopath is a total quack. Ozone is electrically charged oxygen, while highly poisonous turns to oxygen when the charge leaves it when destabilized.

The NIH does no open source studies (meaning you are not reading and NIH study unless you are a registered professional with a need to know) but it indexes some 21 million studies done by anyone who claims to have one. Every quack in the universe references a "study"

He might be a quack.
The article was a published study in the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. It appears on the the pubmed site, which is part of the government’s NIH site. I should have made that clear. Here is the link to the article on ozone therapy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21417811.

Here is another quotation from the study above,

Ozone therapy significantly improves the clinical symptoms associated with chronic hepatitis C and is associated with normalized ALT and AST levels among a significant number of patients. Ozone therapy is associated with disappearance of HCV RNA from the serum (-ve PCR for HCV RNA) in 25%-45% of patients with chronic hepatitis C."

Again, that is about Hep C. But ozone therapy may be a viable complementary therapy.

Your post got me curious and interested. I know that Wikipedia isn’t perfect, but it does sometimes give a quick-study alternative view of subjects.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_therapy
I found some of the references at the end of the article very interesting.
Would I do it? Probably not: there are some risks and I’m not convinced that there would be a reasonable chance of its helping my PsA. The only thing I know for sure is that it’s going to cost a fair amount of money.
But if you decide to do it, anngreen, be sure to come back here and tell us about it!

Thanks, Seenie. Sigh. The wiki article looks pretty damning. I am going to investigate more before I do this. In the meantime, I am doing conventional treatments for PsA.

I know, Ann, I know. I’ve felt that desperate too: living with this thing gets pretty discouraging sometimes. I’m glad you are doing conventional treatments, because those are the only ones that have a rigorously-proven track record of slowing the progression of the disease. I don’t think there’s anyone amongst us who hasn’t sometimes thought and wished “If only …”, or “Maybe if…”.



Keep us in the loop, OK?

Yeah.. I feel like everyone here... we would wish our life away.. if we tried it on this damn disease. I just am wondering.. how much damage is the PsA still causing?

One of the problems I have with the conventional treatments is that I have another illness in which my immune system needs to be boosted. And treatments for PsA suppress the immune system. This is a terrible choice to make. Sophie's Choice. I am grief-stricken. And afraid.

Who's treating what and whos diagnosing what.

The LAST thing you need is your autoimmune system boosted, Its already in overdrive. Controlling that allow your innate system to be "boosted"

The absolute WORST thing you can do is "natural medicine" (naturpaths)

Incidentally The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine is not a stellar publication nor does the fact that it is in the Pubmed Bibliography make it legitimate. I'm not exactly certain that pumping ozone up some ones ass (rectal ozone insufflation) and comparing it to someone taking an off the wall supplement is exactly science.. in any event the numbers in the study only have a 57% chance of being correct for the group that had ozone pumped up,their ass, and a 37% chance of being correct for the vitamin group.

It does look suspect to me as well. I'm not sure why it was even suggested as a treatment, as there seems to be nothing about its efficacy in treating PsA. Oh, how nice it would be to have some sort of magic cure!

I realize I am going against the grain here. I am absolutely for the great conventional medical treatments that stop the progression of PsA. In addition, symptoms can be lessened, greatly lessened, using integrative medicine. minor autohemotherapy is probably on the outskirts of even integrative medicine.

The immune system. Per Dr. Nancy Klimas, an immunologist and one of the few experts in treating ME/CFS--which I also have-- notes that the immune systems of people with ME/CFS are both overactive and underactive. Over-reacting to foods/scents/etc. Under-reacting when there are viruses (like EBV, parvo, etc) that are active in the system and not being killed off by the immune system.Immunomodulators work best (low-dose naltrexone, etc).

So that is my specific issue, really. Unless anyone else on here also has fibro or ME/CFS. I have both PsA and ME/CFS. One requires calming down the immune system, the other does best if immune system is boosted. What do I do?

1 Like

First of all ME and CFS are NOT the same and neither one is the same as FM. There is a school of thought that CFS is the result of ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis) or a broader condition called post-viral fatigue syndrome (PVFS) Dr. Klimas has done some interesting work but her expertise is mostly self-appointed/promotion. She unfortunately has hung around another Floridian by the name of Barry Hurwitz which has sort of tarnished her reputation. Immunologists Dr Klimas BTW is primarily an allergist) have been plying with the whole idea of fixing everything with "vaccines" since the mid 50's.Restoring the immune system which is these guys goal may or may not be an answer. Even where PsA has been found to be the result of reactive arthritis, it doesn't normally get better if it doesn't get better on its own.

In all that time only one curative "vaccine" has come to fruition. It treats a particular form of Bovine cancer. BUT out of that whole mish mosh of research came interferon which while occasionally helpful to cancer treatment lead to an AMAZING discovery. Its called ENBREL.

In any event, about 35% of all PsA patients have co-occuring CFS or FM(S). These are secondary conditions and are SYNDROMES not diseases. Now in all practicality a disease and syndrome are the same thing EXCEPT when it comes to treatment.

You always treat disease first and then syndromes. A lot of the syndromes get under control when the primary disease gets under control. fatique is a huge thing with PsA,. Whether it is caused by one of the co-ocuring syndromes or by inflammation is always a question.

But heres is the sobering fact. Your question of what to do has a very simple answer IF you do not aggressively treat the PsA, it won't matter if you have FMS/CFS/ME. PsA is progressive and will destroy joints and even organs. You will in time be debilitated by the disease it won't matter how crushing the Fatigue. You will be so loaded on opiates to control pain, you won't know id you have FMS/CFS/ME. There are treatments for the neurological effects of FMS/CFS/ME and even the fatigue that work very well with the PsA. Beyond that the only difference is with CFS as opposed to MF/FMS is that withone your exercise regime should contain a sbig aerbic portion and with CFS, it should not.

While the immunologist are still trying to cure things there is a medical specialty devoted to treating the combination. It called rheumatology. YES there are all kinds of alternative/integrative techniques that can help. Frankly if oneself purple and pumping ozone into their bowels helps go for it. (I see a 90 year old craniosacral therapist) BUT only after one is using either biologic or DMARD medication to control the progression of the disease. when that is accomplished the you treat the symptoms.

BTW thanks for understanding my rather warped sense of humor on the ozone thing...............

I agree with much of what you say, except for your view of Dr. Klimas. I did not mean to say that fibro is the same as CFS, but these are both thought to be neuroimmune diseases. You are right--rheumatologists are the specialists for PsA. My point is personal--I have both these illnesses (CFS and PsA) and treating one can worsen the other.

There is so much more to CFS than you are recognizing here. Approximately half are bedridden or housebound. Exercise is out of the question for them.

  • The level of functional impairment in people who suffer from CFS is comparable to multiple sclerosis, AIDS, end-stage renal failure, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. The disability is equivalent to that of some well-known, very severe medical conditions.”– Dr. William Reeves, former CDC Chief of Viral Diseases Branch (2006 CDC Press Conference)

Nancy Klimas, MD, has achieved international recognition for her research and clinical efforts in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS), Gulf War Illness (GWI), Fibromyalgia, and other Neuro Immune Disorders. She was president of the International Association for CFS and ME (IACFS/ME), and is a member of the VA Research Advisory Committee for GWI, the NIH P2P CFS Committee, and the Institute of Medicine ME/CFS Review Panel. Dr. Klimas has advised three Secretaries of Health and Human Services during her service on the Health and Human Services CFS Advisory Committee.

tntlamb said:

First of all ME and CFS are NOT the same and neither one is the same as FM. There is a school of thought that CFS is the result of ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis) or a broader condition called post-viral fatigue syndrome (PVFS) Dr. Klimas has done some interesting work but her expertise is mostly self-appointed/promotion. She unfortunately has hung around another Floridian by the name of Barry Hurwitz which has sort of tarnished her reputation. Immunologists Dr Klimas BTW is primarily an allergist) have been plying with the whole idea of fixing everything with "vaccines" since the mid 50's.Restoring the immune system which is these guys goal may or may not be an answer. Even where PsA has been found to be the result of reactive arthritis, it doesn't normally get better if it doesn't get better on its own.

In all that time only one curative "vaccine" has come to fruition. It treats a particular form of Bovine cancer. BUT out of that whole mish mosh of research came interferon which while occasionally helpful to cancer treatment lead to an AMAZING discovery. Its called ENBREL.

In any event, about 35% of all PsA patients have co-occuring CFS or FM(S). These are secondary conditions and are SYNDROMES not diseases. Now in all practicality a disease and syndrome are the same thing EXCEPT when it comes to treatment.

You always treat disease first and then syndromes. A lot of the syndromes get under control when the primary disease gets under control. fatique is a huge thing with PsA,. Whether it is caused by one of the co-ocuring syndromes or by inflammation is always a question.

But heres is the sobering fact. Your question of what to do has a very simple answer IF you do not aggressively treat the PsA, it won't matter if you have FMS/CFS/ME. PsA is progressive and will destroy joints and even organs. You will in time be debilitated by the disease it won't matter how crushing the Fatigue. You will be so loaded on opiates to control pain, you won't know id you have FMS/CFS/ME. There are treatments for the neurological effects of FMS/CFS/ME and even the fatigue that work very well with the PsA. Beyond that the only difference is with CFS as opposed to MF/FMS is that withone your exercise regime should contain a sbig aerbic portion and with CFS, it should not.

While the immunologist are still trying to cure things there is a medical specialty devoted to treating the combination. It called rheumatology. YES there are all kinds of alternative/integrative techniques that can help. Frankly if oneself purple and pumping ozone into their bowels helps go for it. (I see a 90 year old craniosacral therapist) BUT only after one is using either biologic or DMARD medication to control the progression of the disease. when that is accomplished the you treat the symptoms.

BTW thanks for understanding my rather warped sense of humor on the ozone thing...............

Actually the Rituximab trials established something different. ME/CFS shares at least nine factors with the other auto-immune disorders. They include a gender imbalance tilted towards women, improved symptoms during pregnancy, a strong stress response connection, a high degree of genetic susceptibility, common pathogen triggers, Th2 dominance, high levels of oxidative stress, involvement of the innate immune system, and now symptom improvement using an immune suppressant (Rituximab). Further studies found at least three regulators of the innate immune system; IL-10, TGF-B and adenosine ( a part of the purinergic system), are highlighted in CFS. It’s become clear that many chronic inflammatory and autoimmune disorders don’t display the classic T and B cell responses that immunologists have concentrated on for so long – that something else is going on – and that something else probably involves the innate immune system.

Its been a very long time since CFS has been considered a neuropsychiatric disorder. As far as being the result of a depressed immune system thevevidence is scant. Although in some cases, there has been a slightly lowered immune response, its minor and not even close to enough to cause the symptoms it does. Interestingly enough, the immune response is actually lower in other autoimmune disorders such as RA.

I did not say neuropsychiatric. Those are the folks that think exercise and behavior therapy will "cure" this "it's all in your head" disorder. Neuroimmune refers to inflammation in the brain and issues with the immune system. Many organizations refer to ME and CFS as neuroimmune-- NAME-us.org (national alliance for ME), the Whittemore Peterson Institute, and this article on the neuroimmune model for ME/CFS: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22718491. There are many more.

Klimas & Hurwitz do refer to it as a neuropsychistric disease.

Are you aware of what their work for th VA was? In any event this has gone beyond helpful. Good Luck.