6 monts of h3ll and getting worse - New member intro

Welcome Greetings and Introductions
1

I've read the Advice to Newbies section, so here goes my self-introduction to site members. I am 52 years old female who was a dance teacher and in good health before this.

I had palmar-plantar psoriasis for about 3 years which was incorrectly diagnosed as "fungus". I finally self-diagnosed psoriasis and got a better Dermatologist who actually helped me with cortisone injection and topical cortisone cream (clobetazol) which I use alternately with a natural product called Puremedy Excema & Psoriasis Relief. I have had flares so bad my feet were bleeding. Now mostly controlled and best results from alternating these 2 products.

I was just getting the Psoriasis under control when I came-down with an RTI / sore throat / fever.

The infection seemed to "attack" my joints. At first both hips and one shoulder were affected. My doctor didn't take me seriously until I actually forced her to measure & document my loss of mobility. Then she ordered blood tests, saw the elevated Rheumatoid factor and got me a referral to Rheumatologist.

Waited 3 month to see the Rheumy. Getting worse the whole time. One knee stared to become affected. Rheumy prescribed Naproxin and gave tentative dx of Inflammatory Arthritis, and sent me home with a pamphlet on PsA.

The Naproxin worked great for about 4 days ... then it gave me ulcer-like symptoms. My stomach hurt so bad i couldn't eat. This began the downward spiral of gastric issues and weight loss. I have been OFF naproxin for more than a month but my stomach still isn't "normal". Never had stomach problems a day in my life before this. Lost 16 lbs and i was thin to start with. Took ulcer medication prescribed by my GP which helped the worst symptoms but then THAT med started giving me side-effects. Sort-of better ... but still not right.

2 months wait to see the Rheumy. She prescribed Methotrexate. Worst 4 days of my life. I literally could not get out of bed for 3 days b/c every time I tried to stand-up for more than 5 minutes I felt faint and had to sit down or lie down to keep from falling. Mouth sores, bleeding gums, AND I spent 3 days researching and planning ways to kill myself. NO ONE warned me that methotrexate might affect the mental health. wtf??? On day 8 when the methotrexate finally left my system, I no longer felt like killing my self. It was like turning-on a light switch. Suddenly I was my normal self again. I wonder if anyone else has had mental reactions to methotrexate?

It is another 2 months wait for my next appt but I called to demand another med to try. Took me 5 days, but I finally got a prescription for sulfasalazine and a snotty note from the Rheumy saying maybe I don't have arthritis at all and I should talk to my GP about Fibro. WTF??

My GP agrees that this is a severe inflammatory arthritis. As of today, both shoulders, both wrists, both hips, both knees, and 1 anckle are affected. Swollen and lost mobility. I am nearly totally disabled. The sulfasalazine has not given any serious side effects - but is hasn't helped either.

I am going to a clinic in India for Ayurvedic medical treatment in a month. I don't have the money as I have not been able to get any disability yet. My S.O. is paying for me to go ... and it is a strain on him. But this same clinic helped me recover from stage 2C cancer after a terrible experience with a botched surgery ... so I have confidence in their methods.

I am grateful for the comraderie and information on this site ... but also disturbed by the bias against Naturopathic medicine. I am totally open-minded and trying both Allpathic and Naturopathic routes. But just to be clear ... True Naturopathic Medicine ***IS*** Evidence Based. The criteria for evidence is different (i.e. 6 months testing on lab rats vs. thousands of anecdotal pieces of evidence over 100s of years) In the Ayurvedic system, a treatment had to be tested over 3 generations before it could be included in their medical protocol.

So this may or may not be a good place for me. I find it very disheartening to read such ignorance about and bias against Naturopathic medicine when Allopathic methods remain so "hit & miss". The pharma meds used to treat PsA offer a temporary chemical remission at best. None are a cure. Ayurvedic medicine also does not promise a cure. Also their aim is to create a remission. Personally, I don't see that one is any better than the other ... I just want to find which WORKS for ME.

Sorry for the long rant ... best regards and pleased to meet you.

2

So pleased to meet you too, natkat! We all have to find our way through coping with this disease, and my way might not be yours. We are, though, a community which has a founding focus on conventional medicine. No, we are not sponsored by or allied in any way with Big Pharma, but we do approach things here from a conventional medicine point of view. "Evidence based" here means data from large-scaled, peer-reviewed, well-designed studies, and that is the lens through which we view our PsA world. There are other online communities who view that world through a different set of criteria lenses.

All that said, we have nothing against those who choose the naturopathic route, as long as they don't make claims that suggest that naturopathy has a cure for what ails us. There's no problem at all with your telling what has helped make you feel better. We have a quite a large Complementary Therapies section, and that is where it would belong.

Aside from divergent views that we might have on treatment approaches, we all agree on how difficult this disease can be. So you too had the long error-riddled process of getting a diagnosis! How awful that mtx hit you so hard and so bad: we do hear of that from time to time, but I cannot recall anybody becoming suicidal from it. I'm sure, though, if you read the consumer info fine print, they'll have that one covered too!

Also in the complementary therapies section, we share quite a lot of self-care strategies which people find are soothing and pain relieving. We all need those, whether we believe in conventional mainstream medicine, or in alternative treatment modalities.

We're glad that you found us, natkat, and we hope that you will be too!

Seenie

3

Wow Natkat - First welcome! Then - what a terrible horror story you have had! Unfortunately most of us have had similar horror stories, especially about misdiagnosis and failure of medical professionals to be compassionate. I am only 2 years older than you, working full time, mother, grandmother and very busy in community groups. My diagnosis was put down to everything from menopause, being overweight, unfit, to all in my head (I kid you not) I literally went to a GP and said "this pain and swelling in my wrist is not all in my head" before someone actually took me seriously. Over the course of some 15-20 years I have tried every complimentary medication I could find and every one that was recommended. I never found anything that worked for me other than 1. I have a local man who makes me 100% olive oil soap. I have used it exclusively for some 5 years now, and I am convinced it relieves my itching and keeps my plaque at bay.

I have offered it to others with great fervor, but most people will politely accept a sample and I hear no more of it. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone finds their own level of what is right for them.

I was diagnosed Coeliac prior to the PsA diagnosis, which should have triggered the look into more Auto Immune disease. I have accepted that the only relief I can achieve is with the use of "big pharma" medication. I am on both Methotrexate and Biologics (Enbrel). For me it has been life changing. I just pray that it continues to work for me as long as it possibly can.

I hope you can find a great Rheumatologist who can work with you in your treatment course. It should be a partnership not an adversarial relationship. My previous Rheumy retired, and I have just had an initial consult with the 4th potential new Rheumy (the last 3 I didn't like) and I think this is the one I will stick with..

Good luck

Becstar

4

Hi Becstar,

Actually olive oil has anti-inflammatory properties ... so not surprising the olive oil soap helps you! I also use a very mild plant-based soap if I use soap at all.

Sadly, I can't pick my rheumy. I am on Medi-cal which is a state program administered by a private insurance company - the worst of both worlds! They assign the doctor and the doctors are always over-booked, over-worked and it is normal to wait 2-4 months for appointments. I actually don't think this rheumy is bad per se ... I think she is very frustrated that the methotrexate didn't work b/c it is cheap and easy. Now I am a "problem" b/c she will have to do more work to help me. I'm sure she WISHES i had fibro and I could go back to being my GP's problem.
God Willing the tx in India will work.
If it doesn't I imagine I will have to fight to get the "biologics" which sound like the best pharmaceuticals have to offer.

Just to be clear ... Naturopathic medicine is different than Complementary. Complementary is all the self-help stuff like OTC herbs, vitamins, gluten free diet which is meant to COMPLEMENT a treatment.

NONE of that stuff has helped me, either.
Full-on Naturopathic medicine is a complete and comprehensive treatment by a qualified doctor. Hence my trip to India. I don't know if I could even get that level of care here in the USA. I'm sure we couldn't afford it. They will be doing treatments on me at that clinic that are WAAAAY Beyond self-care. To make the analogy ... it is the difference between popping a couple of aspirin or getting a full course of Biologics.

Anyway, good luck with your search for a rheumy. If you have the freedom to pick a doctor I am sure you can find a good one ... but it may take some looking! Be Well!

Becstar said:

Wow Natkat - First welcome! Then - what a terrible horror story you have had! Unfortunately most of us have had similar horror stories, especially about misdiagnosis and failure of medical professionals to be compassionate. I am only 2 years older than you, working full time, mother, grandmother and very busy in community groups. My diagnosis was put down to everything from menopause, being overweight, unfit, to all in my head (I kid you not) I literally went to a GP and said "this pain and swelling in my wrist is not all in my head" before someone actually took me seriously. Over the course of some 15-20 years I have tried every complimentary medication I could find and every one that was recommended. I never found anything that worked for me other than 1. I have a local man who makes me 100% olive oil soap. I have used it exclusively for some 5 years now, and I am convinced it relieves my itching and keeps my plaque at bay.

I have offered it to others with great fervor, but most people will politely accept a sample and I hear no more of it. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone finds their own level of what is right for them.

I was diagnosed Coeliac prior to the PsA diagnosis, which should have triggered the look into more Auto Immune disease. I have accepted that the only relief I can achieve is with the use of "big pharma" medication. I am on both Methotrexate and Biologics (Enbrel). For me it has been life changing. I just pray that it continues to work for me as long as it possibly can.

I hope you can find a great Rheumatologist who can work with you in your treatment course. It should be a partnership not an adversarial relationship. My previous Rheumy retired, and I have just had an initial consult with the 4th potential new Rheumy (the last 3 I didn't like) and I think this is the one I will stick with..

Good luck

Becstar

5

Hi Natkat,

I hope your journey in India goes well, and definitely ask for another doctor with this program- her actions are just so unacceptable it made me mad to think about it. Show them the note, you have the right to a doctor you feel comfortable with, and the right to a second opinion.

Megan

6

Hi Megan,

thanks for the supportive post. You can't choose a doctor on medi-cal. Even if I demanded to see a different doctor ... that doctor might be worse! Not to mention they might just say NO.

In any case, I am preparing for this appointment and doing my research. I will request that this rheumatologist document each and every affected joint ... that is what worked with my GP ... so it should work with the rheumatologist.

I think I do have a dual-diagnosis ... but with Polymyalgia Rheumatica (which I learned about from reading on this site) I will bring my research about PMR to the Rheumy and request a trial of Prednisone. Hopefully she will do that. Honestly the only luck I've had with the medi-cal doctors is when I self-diagnose.

I leave for India in about 2 weeks and see the rhuemy in 1 week ... so I have just enough time to do a week trial of prednisone which should help a great deal if I do have PMR & PsA (assuming I can tolerate the med) ... and then the tx at the clinic to god willing put the the symptoms into remission.


maeggyn said:

Hi Natkat,

I hope your journey in India goes well, and definitely ask for another doctor with this program- her actions are just so unacceptable it made me mad to think about it. Show them the note, you have the right to a doctor you feel comfortable with, and the right to a second opinion.

Megan

7

Oh I am so sorry you have such a bad system with these docs. Maybe this lady will see you are serious, I also find it helps to bring my husband to my appointments, because as much as we wish it wasn't this way, sometimes doctors assume women are exaggerating their symptoms. I know that sucks to think about, but having someone corroborate could make them see you really are in pain. I have never heard of this other condition. Also, maybe on the prednisone you might gain back some of the weight you lost on MTX. I wish you all the best, stay strong!

8

Hey natkat

You're going to India soon. Where do you go there, and to what kind of facility? Just curious.

9

If you had that kind of reaction to a single doses of MTX, something else is radically wrong with your body. It would take 6 weekly doses to get to a 7 day half life. Same with naproxyn which is Aleve. The dose of MTX used to treat arthritis is 1% of the therepeutic dose that was used for the drugs original purpose.

A reaction to the meds you described if it was the meds is very concerning. The high concentrated tinctures used in Naturopathic clinics (stateside anyway) could well be expected to have VERY serious reactions. many of those "natural" meds are identical in active ingredients to pharmaceuticals just very poor QC. The best comparison and very accurate comparison is Heroin is just a tincture of Flowers. if you have medication sensitivities, Naturopathic treatment isn't a great alternative.

And no Naturpaths are NOT fully qualified physicians. In the US they have two years of basic science (taught by other Naturpaths in non accredited "colleges,") and a two year apprenticeship with another ND. They love to compare their education to MDs and DO's and that should be a clue............... They are a fully qualified Naturopath.

Speaking of evidence BTW one of the "centuries old" method of producing Ayurvedic medicines involves the practice of rasa shastra (combining herbs with metals, minerals, and gems) (especially when dealing with Vata energy that which causes arthritis. To make a long story short over 21% of these medications purchased form multiple sources contained include lead, arsenic, and mercury (including one Very famous center in India) Its not that some of us are intolerent, of alternatives. It si because we have been around long enough that none of it is "new" Others are experienced enough to know that biologics which are far more natural. than herbs being human DNA and all, are not a "chemical remission" So long as Ayurvedic medicine is considered alternative treatment by the World at large including the W H O who approves some pretty funky stuff, it will be in the complimentary section here. We are unapologetically evidence based. One million pieces of anecdotal piece of evidence is still one million pieces of wishful thinking. And no evidence for "Big Pharmaceutical" is not 6 mos of tests on rats. You have that mixed up with the cosmetic industry,

10

Hi tntlamb,

replies to your post inserted in body of quote

tntlamb said:

If you had that kind of reaction to a single doses of MTX, something else is radically wrong with your body.
<<snip snip>>


Nat replies:
Perhaps. I have a history of chemical sensitivity and weird drug reactions ever since an over-exposure to pesticides in my workplace 32 years ago ... but I have also read many on-line reviews. People report having extreme adverse reactions to their first dose of methotrexate ... so I am not the only person to have an extreme adverse reaction to one dose.

The naproxyn gave me ulcer-like symptoms if not an actual ulcer. This is very common. The only thing strange was how FAST it happened to me. But every nurse and PT I spoke to about this issue just nodded their heads and said naproxin is notorious for stomach problems. Only the doctors didn't mention it.

<<snip>>

... The high concentrated tinctures used in Naturopathic clinics (stateside anyway) could well be expected to have VERY serious reactions. many of those "natural" meds are identical in active ingredients to pharmaceuticals just very poor QC. The best comparison and very accurate comparison is Heroin is just a tincture of Flowers. if you have medication sensitivities, Naturopathic treatment isn't a great alternative.

<<Snip snip>

Nat here:
This statement contains a great deal of confusing information. One can not lump together all Naturopathic clinics. There are MANY different clinics doing many different things.
Are some snake oil?
Yes.
But others are very reputable and have proven track records. I have PERSONALLY met and spoken to people who have been helped or cured at reputable clinics. As have I, myself.
Vis a vis Herbal tinctures:
I use herbal tinctures and capsules from a VERY REPUTABLE company called Gaia Herbs and their QC is excellent. I have NEVER had an adverse reaction to their products in 25 years of use. I use only reputable brands and suppliers for the very reasons you mention.

Yes, I have had minor adverse reactions to other herbal products ... but nothing as serious as what I've had to pharma meds over the years.


How do you know that Naturopathic treatment isn't a great alternative for me?
You don't know me. You don't know my history. I have successfully used naturopathic medicine for much of my life INCLUDING treatment of stage 2C cancer which allopathic tx failed.

<<snip snip>

And no Naturpaths are NOT fully qualified physicians.

<<snip snip>>

Nat here:
There are several doctors in my area who are full MDs + ND. They are qualified in BOTH. Sadly I can't afford them. Also some questionable characters as you mention.

In India, the Ayurvedic Physicians go through 5-6 years of college which is equivalent to a general MD in the USA.
yes, you are correct that unqualified people may present themselves as Naturopaths ... but again ... I have been to some TOTAL QUACKS who had their MD license ... so medical quackery exists on both sides.
This issue is easily solved by doing research to find reputable and credentialled Naturopathic care. It does exist. Many people on this site report they must "shop around" to find the right rheumatologist who understands their case. Why would one not "shop around" and check credentials for a Naturopathic doctor?

<<snip snip>>

Speaking of evidence BTW one of the "centuries old" method of producing Ayurvedic medicines involves the practice of rasa shastra (combining herbs with metals, minerals, and gems) (especially when dealing with Vata energy that which causes arthritis. To make a long story short over 21% of these medications purchased form multiple sources contained include lead, arsenic, and mercury (including one Very famous center in India) ...

<<snip snip>>

Nat here,

Yes yes ... this is the standard argument which is always given by anyone seeking to discredit Ayurvedic Medicine. Heard it before. Yawn. WHO did these studies? Have you actually seen them? Or just read about them on the Internet? Which brands were tested? Did any brands test pure?
WHICH famous center in India? Did it have a name?

And NO ... vata is NOT the sole cause of arthritis according to Ayurveda. This is over-simplifying a very complex diagnostic tool. Arthritis is not considered one disease in Ayurveda. It has many sub-sets just as in allopathic medicine. A serious case such as my own is undoubtedly tri-doshic in nature.

Vis a vis ayurvedic meds, I deal only with reputable suppliers and a reputable clinic.

Also, let us touch upon the idea of "poisons" in medicine. Allopathic doctors love to cry about the presence of mercury in certain ancient Ayurvedic formulas ... yet those same doctors will prescribe drugs containing deadly poisons as cancer treatment ... its called Chemotherapy. So the idea of using poisonous substances in drugs is both ancient and modern.


That being said, when you have people who will put melanine in powdered milk (remember the China scandal) yes of course there are dangerous fake meds out there. But please don't confuse those with the REPUTABLE companies who produce good herbal medicines. There are plenty of shady characters cranking-out counterfeit pharma meds, too.

<<snip snip>>
Its not that some of us are intolerent, of alternatives. It si because we have been around long enough that none of it is "new"

<<snip snip>>
Nat here:

What does this even mean? Of course none of it is new. Herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years. Functional Medicine which is a hybrid form is pretty new. You seem very knowledgeable about allopathic medicine which I greatly respect. But you make many statements about Naturopathic medicine which lead me to believe you have not undertaken any serious studies. Just my impression ... of course I don't know you. There *is* a definite bias on this site ... it is plainly stated by the moderators that this forum is primarily about allopathic medical treatments ... so prolly the wrong place for me as i have a more catholic approach and open to both forms.

<<snip snip>>
Others are experienced enough to know that biologics which are far more natural. than herbs being human DNA and all, are not a "chemical remission"

<<snip>>
Nat here:
My understanding is there is no definitive cure for PsA. Therefor ANY med only causes a remission. I.e. its not like you take the med for 2 months and you are "cured". But perhaps this is semantics.
If the Ayurvedic tx doesn't work I will certainly ask for Biologics!

<<snip snip>>
... We are unapologetically evidence based.

<snip>

Nat here:
and I am unapologetically offended by the co-opting of the term "evidence-based" to politicize medical care. Especially when you consider how much of the "evidence" for pharma meds is tampered and twisted toward financial gain. Please note the "faking" of evidence for Celebrex (see wikipedia). Please note that Tamoxifen which is routinely given to breast cancer patients started out as a morning-after abortion pill. Its re-branding as a breast cancer drug had more to do with protecting investment dollars than protecting lives. There is loads of research on this and you could watch the documentary Pink Ribbons Inc. There are plenty of shady players in the "evidence-based medicine" game.

<<snip snip>
One million pieces of anecdotal piece of evidence is still one million pieces of wishful thinking.

<snip>

Nat here:
why is anecdotal evidence "wishful thinking"?
For example White willow bark is a traditional herbal analgesic. Then it was refined to the pharmaceutical form Aspirin. This actually PROVES the anecdotal evidence was TRUE.
Same thing with Valerian root which is a traditional herb for calming the nerves and promoting sleep. It was later refined to Valium which is used to calm the nerves and aid sleep ... so again ... we have the anecdotal evidence PROVED AS TRUE.


If you undertook a deep study of Ayurvedic medicine ... you would understand that it is an elegant form of science which requires a great deal of evidence. It is Different from modern, western science ... but in some ways it is more advanced since some of the principles of Ayurvedic science are now borne-out by recent advancements in Physics. I don't think one can dismiss a science as "wrong" because it is different.

Personally, I am fascinated by the implications of bio-energetic medicine as the current allopathic medicine is based-on a bio-mechanical model which will soon seem as outdated as when Lister was mocked by other surgeons for suggesting that their patients were dying from GERMS and telling them to wash their hands between patients.

But I digress. Thank you for a great debate. I wish you good health whatever your path toward it.

11

I'm glad you understand that it is just discussion. Your experience is far different than what most of our members experience with natuarpathy and far different than your experience with Ayurvedic medicine. They are NOT the same thing. Were I in your position I would certainly be seeking every alternative I could. Chemical sensitivities (true chemical sensitivities as you appear to have) really are exceedingly rare and I certainly wouldn't doubt for a minute you situation was caused by your insecticide exposure.

NDs in the US have a strong tendencey of representing themselves as something they are not. They either tend to compare themselves to MD/DO or Ayurvedic (and other Asian Practices) rarely are they close to either. the term Naturopathic medicine is prolly not a good one. It covers way too much I wish you the best of luck what ever path you choose and I hope you stay in touch.

Not much debate with me believe it or not. Sort of a famous story around here is if painting yourself purple, dancing naked under a full moon while licking frog slime works I'd do it. But on forums we describe not prescribe. so we relate OUR experiences not the anecdotal experience of others or the hysteria found on the internet.

12



We need a "Like Button" here..

"Not much debate with me believe it or not. Sort of a famous story around here is if painting yourself purple, dancing naked under a full moon while licking frog slime works I'd do it. But on forums we describe not prescribe. so we relate OUR experiences not the anecdotal experience of others or the hysteria found on the internet."

13

Hi tntlamb,

thanks for reply. As before ... my responses in body of quote

tntlamb said:

I'm glad you understand that it is just discussion.

snip snip>>

Nat says

Yes, just a discussion ... but at the same time ... I believe good communication is one of the most important things human beings can do. Words have strong power to help, to harm, to stimulate thought ...

snip snip>>
Your experience is far different than what most of our members experience with natuarpathy and far different than your experience with Ayurvedic medicine. They are NOT the same thing.

<snip>>

Nat says:

I agree. It is unfortunate that "natural medicine" becomes an umbrella term for schools as diverse as Ayurveda, Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), Eclectic Herbalism, Functional Medicine (which is not even Natural but gets lumped-in).

snip snip>>

Were I in your position I would certainly be seeking every alternative I could. Chemical sensitivities (true chemical sensitivities as you appear to have) really are exceedingly rare and I certainly wouldn't doubt for a minute you situation was caused by your insecticide exposure.

snip>>
Nat says:

Actually there may be more chemically sensitive pple out there than you think. A minority to be sure ... but I have met other ppl who have similar issues.

You impress me as very knowledgeable and caring ... so if at all I have made any impression on you ... I hope in future you might use your gifts to encourage chemically sensitive or drug sensitive people to EDUCATE themselves about the different "natural" methods and shop around for REPUTABLE providers ... rather than simply advise against any natural methods. For some ppl natural methods might be the only thing that works.

in MY personal experience ... mainstream cancer treatment prolly would have killed me and REAL Ayurvedic treatment at a REPUTABLE clinic put the cancer in remission. It wasn't a miracle cure. It was heavy-duty medicine

snip snip>>

NDs in the US have a strong tendencey of representing themselves as something they are not. They either tend to compare themselves to MD/DO or Ayurvedic (and other Asian Practices) rarely are they close to either. the term Naturopathic medicine is prolly not a good one.

snip>>

Nat says

Yes, we totally agree. And I understand the negativity created by all the snake-oil salesmen out there promising miracle cures. But I think we don't "throw-out the baby with the bath water" as they say. The answer is not to condemn ALL natural medicines ... but to educate the people who might NEED natural medicines to learn the difference between snake-oil and TRUE natural medicine.

snip snip>>
I wish you the best of luck what ever path you choose and I hope you stay in touch.

snip>>
Nat says
Thank you! I will likely be off-line for a while prepping for the trip. I leave in 1 week. YIKES! On another note I am grateful for the pharma meds that DO work ... I will be asking for heavy-duty pain meds to get me through the 24 hour flight };>. On day 1 of my 7-days Prednisone trial I am already feeling some pain relief THANK GOD. Of course prednisone is only a diagnostic tool and temporary relief for the PMR (Dr. agrees I am likely dual diagnosis). Not a long-term fix ... but at least I now have 2 weapons in my short-term arsenal to fight this thing. Ironically it was my ACCUPUNCTURIST who suggested I ask my Rheumatologist for the prednisone ... so ironcally ... I have a natural medicine provider to thank for steering my rheumy in the right direction.

Snip snip>>
Not much debate with me believe it or not. Sort of a famous story around here is if painting yourself purple, dancing naked under a full moon while licking frog slime works I'd do it.

snip>>
Nat says

Fair enough. But I didn't see that attitude in your first post to me. Also a couple of posts on other threads seemed to issue blanket condemnations of ANYTHING not pharmaceutical / allopathic.

snip>>

But on forums we describe not prescribe. so we relate OUR experiences not the anecdotal experience of others or the hysteria found on the internet.

snip >>
Nat says

God save us all from internet hysteria. I hope I have made some impression by sharing my experience as a "chemical sensitive" or whatever it is in my particular body chemistry that has given me a life-time of weird and dangerous reactions to pharma drugs, and various other chemicals such as pesticides, glues, paints, solvents, cleaning products, and whatever it is they do in surgery that my body doesn't react well to (I am guessing the anaesthetics???)

If I have internet I will post about what happens in India.

Meanwhile, I hope you are well and happy, dear tntlamb!

14

The biggest problem is when we get into Ayurveda and most of the '"Eastern Medicines" a pretty firm line is crossed. Religious discussions (along with politics) are not allowed. There really is no difference between Ayurveda Medicine and our Spirit Filled Christian members discussing an upcoming Benny Hinn meeting. Its impossible to discuss any of those without judgments being made, which is why this thread is being closed.